[mlassoff]

I know I am stepping in it here but why does a Connecticut town sponsor a Christmas Village? I just read the following story:

Famed Christmas Village in Torrington Opens for Season Dec. 9 - News - The Litchfield County Times

after seeing that the Xmas village's baby Jesus was stolen (I didn't do it). Why does a municipality have an entire Christmas Village complete with baby Jesus? (There goes the non-religious Christmas argument, I guess). Isn't this, in reality, a town erecting a religious display? Are other religions represented?

I don't get this at all.

If you want to have a Christmas Display at a church, or at your house, or in any non-government owned setting-- Have at it. Why are any tax dollars in Connecticut going to support a "baby Jesus"?

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Read the article a bit more thoroughly and note how incredibly sloppy it is.

[willow wind]

No, you didn't step in it- it's a perfectly logical question. And there is an answer to it. Any municipality can have a religious symbols on town property as long as it it also has secular aspects along with the religious symbol.

In other words, a cross and baby Jesus are OK as long as reindeer, elves, Frosty the Snowman, etc. are there with those religious symbols. Other religions must also be afforded the same consideration. They would have to permit a Menorah on town property if perhaps a dreidel or such was sitting next to it.


See case law in link.


Religious displays by municipalities

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by willow wind

No, you didn't step in it- it's a perfectly logical question. And there is an answer to it. Any municipality can have a religious symbols on town property as long as it it also has secular aspects along with the religious symbol.

In other words, a cross and baby Jesus are OK as long as reindeer, elves, Frosty the Snowman, etc. are there with those religious symbols. Other religions must also be afforded the same consideration. They would have to permit a Menorah on town property if perhaps a dreidel or such was sitting next to it.


See case law in link.


Religious displays by municipalities

Thanks for the link-- albeit church sponsored it had some interesting information. The perspective offered here: Which religious holiday displays are unconstitutional? - Slate Magazine is a little more balanced in my opinion and tends to indicate that the case law is not so conclusive.

In any case, I am glad children enjoy it. I am glad it's been continued for 30 years. I am happy that they get visitors from around the state-- I just don't like tax dollars supporting it.

Of course when I lived in Vernon they "Jesus Fest" which didn't thrill me-- but I couldn't find a connection to the city...

[willow wind]

I think you get more situations as in Torrington when the town has little variety in worship I looked up religious groups in the town. It's 99% Christian churches with the exception of a single Bahia group. Thus, not many perhaps to ask the question, why should tax dollars support it. Presumably, the majority of tax payers are OK with it or it wouldn't happen.

Towns with less homogenous populations maybe less so and more variety. Take Guilford for example.


Shoreline Jewish Festival at Guilford Town Green | CBS Local Connecticut Events - Connecticut Events « CBS Connecticut

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by willow wind

I think you get more situations as in Torrington when the town has little variety in worship I looked up religious groups in the town. It's 99% Christian churches with the exception of a single Bahia group. Thus, not many perhaps to ask the question, why should tax dollars support it. Presumably, the majority of tax payers are OK with it or it wouldn't happen.

Towns with less homogenous populations maybe less so and more variety. Take Guilford for example.


Shoreline Jewish Festival at Guilford Town Green | CBS Local Connecticut Events - Connecticut Events « CBS Connecticut

This event is sponsored by Chabad, a private Jewish organization-- not the town of Guilford. I'm not a big fan of towns allowing religious groups to use public land, because there are hidden costs that tax payers cover.. I'm less of a fan of the town itself putting on a religious oriented event-- as Torrington is.

I'm not sure a Christian hegemony avoids establishment clause issues.

You missed Torrington's active synagogue by the way: Beth El Synagogue of Torrington, CT

[willow wind]

The point I was trying to make was not whether a town sponsored it but to say that where there is interest, religious use of town property by various groups is permitted. The town of course has to foot a certain amount of the bill. Street lights cost money, clean up costs some and maintenance of that huge Green in Guilford, which takes a beating from all the activities that happen on it, costs a pretty penny.

And yes, I did miss the synagogue in Torrington. I looked at two different websites and it didn't come up on those.

PS- what in the world is Jesus fest? That's a new one to me.

[FortRyan]

Now we have another thing to check out in CT!!

[El Scorcho]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I know I am stepping in it here but why does a Connecticut town sponsor a Christmas Village? I just read the following story:

Famed Christmas Village in Torrington Opens for Season Dec. 9 - News - The Litchfield County Times

after seeing that the Xmas village's baby Jesus was stolen (I didn't do it). Why does a municipality have an entire Christmas Village complete with baby Jesus? (There goes the non-religious Christmas argument, I guess). Isn't this, in reality, a town erecting a religious display? Are other religions represented?

Just out of curiosity, which other religions celebrate Christmas and should be represented?

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I don't get this at all.

If you want to have a Christmas Display at a church, or at your house, or in any non-government owned setting-- Have at it. Why are any tax dollars in Connecticut going to support a "baby Jesus"?

Do you live in Torrington or otherwise pay taxes there?

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by willow wind

The point I was trying to make was not whether a town sponsored it but to say that where there is interest, religious use of town property by various groups is permitted. The town of course has to foot a certain amount of the bill. Street lights cost money, clean up costs some and maintenance of that huge Green in Guilford, which takes a beating from all the activities that happen on it, costs a pretty penny.

And yes, I did miss the synagogue in Torrington. I looked at two different websites and it didn't come up on those.

PS- what in the world is Jesus fest? That's a new one to me.

JesusFest-- I wouldn't know. I don't attend-- I don't feel as if I am welcome, being Jewish and all. It's some type of Christian Festival.

Again, I see a big difference between using town facilities and having the town actually put on the event.