[MrGompers]

You guys still don't get it. The reports that show tolls from out of staters will be 30% or 40% still don't contain their data source and the methodology of how they collected that data. For all we know they had someone sit on the side of the road and count the number of out of state license plates. I wouldn't trust the Govt blindly.



EZ pass discounts are tied to the state in which the EZ pass was issued, so CT won't be able to change that. EZ pass isn't going to change its policy just because CT wants it too.


The only way to "soak the out of staters" 100% of the time would be to have the tolls at the same price for everyone, but allow CT residents to deduct those tolls from their CT state tax return.


The problem with this "soak the out of staters" "out of staters are driving thru CT for free" is this is the number one reason they are using to implement tolls. That is a lie. CT residents will always pay the majority of the tolls.


If they want tolls they need to drop the "soak the out of staters" BS and lay out the numbers.


For example, Hartford viaduct and Waterbury mixmaster replacement is around $10 billion dollars combined. Start there. Show us how we can or can not fund these projects with or without tolls. I don't see how CT can do these projects without tolls, but at least give us a breakdown. That would go a lot further that the "soak the out of staters." rhetoric.

[MrGompers]

Originally Posted by troutman85

Cut some services then, prioritize spending.

You can outline all the budget cuts you want here, then forward those recommendations to your state rep and senator. There is enough critics here to help you with this project. Start a new thread for it.


https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/OPM/Bu...Bpdf.pdf?la=en


You can also use this site which gives comparisons for Actual vs Budgeted


https://openbudget.ct.gov/#!/year/20...ng/0/fund_type


When you see a difference contact your state rep and senator and ask why.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

You guys still don't get it. The reports that show tolls from out of staters will be 30% or 40% still don't contain their data source and the methodology of how they collected that data. For all we know they had someone sit on the side of the road and count the number of out of state license plates. I wouldn't trust the Govt blindly.



EZ pass discounts are tied to the state in which the EZ pass was issued, so CT won't be able to change that. EZ pass isn't going to change its policy just because CT wants it too.


The only way to "soak the out of staters" 100% of the time would be to have the tolls at the same price for everyone, but allow CT residents to deduct those tolls from their CT state tax return.


The problem with this "soak the out of staters" "out of staters are driving thru CT for free" is this is the number one reason they are using to implement tolls. That is a lie. CT residents will always pay the majority of the tolls.


If they want tolls they need to drop the "soak the out of staters" BS and lay out the numbers.


For example, Hartford viaduct and Waterbury mixmaster replacement is around $10 billion dollars combined. Start there. Show us how we can or can not fund these projects with or without tolls. I don't see how CT can do these projects without tolls, but at least give us a breakdown. That would go a lot further that the "soak the out of staters." rhetoric.

If you don’t trust the state, how can you trust what they give you even if they gave you the source? Sorry but it seems the only way you will believe anything is for you to go out there and count out of state license plates.

You are incorrect about how EZPass offers discounts. You think the EZPass company determines who gets a discount. That is not correct. The state determines that. Back when EZPass was first started, states were trying to get drivers to buy their transponders, they would offer discounts to anyone who bought theirs. That does not have to be the case and is not what Lamont has proposed.

The state has laid out the numbers. You just choose to not believe them or you want even more. Again you aren’t going to believe them so why bother.

No one has ever said that Connecticut drivers would not pay the majority of the tolls but think about the alternative. If tolls are not implemented, Connecticut driver will continue to pay the vast majority of the cost of our highways and out-of-state drivers will continue to pay virtually nothing. Are you ready to walk away from $320 million a year that is not coming from Connecticut taxpayers? Even if it is $160 million, do you want to walk away from that? If you consider that the Federal Highway Administration matches 50% of that money, you are talking about $240 to $480 million per year in construction on Connecticut highways that is not being paid by Connecticut taxpayers. Over 30 years that is a lot of money and a lot of roadway improvements we have no way to pay for. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

You can outline all the budget cuts you want here, then forward those recommendations to your state rep and senator. There is enough critics here to help you with this project. Start a new thread for it.


https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/OPM/Bu...Bpdf.pdf?la=en


You can also use this site which gives comparisons for Actual vs Budgeted


https://openbudget.ct.gov/#!/year/20...ng/0/fund_type


When you see a difference contact your state rep and senator and ask why.

This is a good idea but as you suggest this should be done in a new thread. Discussing that here would be off topic. JayCT, Moderator

[MrGompers]

Originally Posted by JayCT

If you don’t trust the state, how can you trust what they give you even if they gave you the source? Sorry but it seems the only way you will believe anything is for you to go out there and count out of state license plates.

You are incorrect about how EZPass offers discounts. You think the EZPass company determines who gets a discount. That is not correct. The state determines that. Back when EZPass was first started, states were trying to get drivers to buy their transponders, they would offer discounts to anyone who bought theirs. That does not have to be the case and is not what Lamont has proposed.

The state has laid out the numbers. You just choose to not believe them or you want even more. Again you aren’t going to believe them so why bother.

No one has ever said that Connecticut drivers would not pay the majority of the tolls but think about the alternative. If tolls are not implemented, Connecticut driver will continue to pay the vast majority of the cost of our highways and out-of-state drivers will continue to pay virtually nothing. Are you ready to walk away from $320 million a year that is not coming from Connecticut taxpayers? Even if it is $160 million, do you want to walk away from that? If you consider that the Federal Highway Administration matches 50% of that money, you are talking about $240 to $480 million per year in construction on Connecticut highways that is not being paid by Connecticut taxpayers. Over 30 years that is a lot of money and a lot of roadway improvements we have no way to pay for. Jay

The reports that you guys keep linking to do not contain source data or methodology. That is the first thing any serious study includes so others can also make their own statistical analysis. Anyone who believes in their data welcomes criticism and alternative analysis.

You are also wrong about the EZ pass discounts. In the current system any resident from any state can obtain an EZ from any state they want. The discounts are attached to the EZ pass not the state of the resident. The easiest way around this to allow CT residents to deduct tolls from CT tax returns. I don't know if that is feasible given the data reporting and oversight a system like that would require.


It would also potentially penalize out of state commuters who work in CT and pay income tax in CT. Why should they be excluded ?


Your history of the EZ pass system is also incorrect. I had one when they were first issued. Initially all tolls in all states provided discounts to EZ pass users. It was an incentive. The discount was small, for example NJT and GSP had a flat 10% discount I think. Which made the .35 tolls .31 or .32 cents. Tappen Zee bridge had a discount too. Maybe 1 dollar.



After a while states did away with the universal discounts and started the "out of state drivers pay more BS" Some states also started adding monthly service fees for mailed statements. AS state budgets were squeezed they came after the EZ pass system.


The states have saved untold millions just on employee salaries potential pensions alone by closing the toll booths. That should have provided enough savings for the life of the system to avoid the "out of state drivers pay more" BS.


I do not reject all potential taxes and fees automatically like some people here do. This potential toll system stinks to high heaven though and needs to be criticized from all angles and all political parties.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

You are also wrong about the EZ pass discounts. In the current system any resident from any state can obtain an EZ from any state they want. The discounts are attached to the EZ pass not the state of the resident. The easiest way around this to allow CT residents to deduct tolls from CT tax returns. I don't know if that is feasible given the data reporting and oversight a system like that would require.

Rhode Island EZ Pass only gives the steep discount on the Newport Bridge to state residents. If you're out of state, you don't get the discount with a RI transponder. Same if you're using a borrowed RI transponder on a car with out of state plates.

[JayCT]

According to CTDOT's analysis of Governor Lamont's latest plan for tolls in the state, 42.6% of the revenue from tolls would come from out-of-state drivers. If the total revenue from tolls is $800 million per year which has been the Governor's goal, that means $340.8 million per year would come from out-of-state drivers who currently pay nothing to use our roads. That is a lot of money that Connecticut taxpayers would not have to pay.

What's even more interesting about this is that it indicates that money from the tolls on a highway would go to improvements on that highway. That is not what was previously discussed. So tolls from I-95 would go to improvements on I-95. Tolls on I-84 would go toward improvements on I-84. I always said they should tie tolls to specific improvements made to the highway. I think that people would be more open to tolls if this is what they were proposing. Jay

https://patch.com/connecticut/glasto...campaign=alert

[mp775]

Originally Posted by JayCT

What's even more interesting about this is that it indicates that money from the tolls on a highway would go to improvements on that highway. That is not what was previously discussed. So tolls from I-95 would go to improvements on I-95. Tolls on I-84 would go toward improvements on I-84.

That's a federal requirement for tolling a facility.

[Fuele]

Originally Posted by mp775

That's a federal requirement for tolling a facility.

A double dip into the pockets of the people. Federal Taxes pay for Federal Roads, now the state will take their share from your pocket to " maintain " the same road.

How did they come up with the 42 % of out of state drivers? Did they sit up on the hill with binoculars ? Tires don't wear out roads. Weather, Climate, age and lack of Maintenance are the major contributors.

What a scam.

[GoHuskies]

Originally Posted by Fuele

A double dip into the pockets of the people. Federal Taxes pay for Federal Roads, now the state will take their share from your pocket to " maintain " the same road.

How did they come up with the 42 % of out of state drivers? Did they sit up on the hill with binoculars ? Tires don't wear out roads. Weather, Climate, age and lack of Maintenance are the major contributors.

What a scam.

Tires absolutely wear down roads, why do you think intersections or slow ramps popular with trucks develop rolling ruts in the pavement or lots of potholes. Open sections of highway with minimal traffic jams will last longer but even then modern grippy tires are slowly eroding the roadway.