[Stylo]

Originally Posted by Reilly1017

Let’s not forget the workforce also did shrink according to CDC numbers, you can argue cause of death all you want, reality is 2020 deaths were up 18-20% over 2019. That’s a few couple hundred thousand people right there that cannot go back to work.

Thing is, the majority of deaths (80%) were over 65, so we can’t assume most were working.

[Reilly1017]

Originally Posted by Stylo

Thing is, the majority of deaths (80%) were over 65, so we can’t assume most were working.

I’m too lazy to find the stat, but last I saw there were 163K American workers employed with jobs that died of covid. So yes, you are right, large percentage were old and not working and I may have over emphasized the point by saying “a few hundred thousand”. Small numbers overall

[nep321]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

I agree in full, and I do not question their non existent work ethic. This nation was stupid enough to pay them to be "on the dole". Requirements of seeking work being ignored or eliminated-should NEVER have occurred, and I would hope, employers do hold being out too long against them, as they should. Hire those who worked as much as they possible could over the last 14 months. Hire the currently employed first. You know their work ethic is solid.

Honestly, this is not really that accurate. I was unemployed until I got my current job and I am getting excellent performance reviews, got promoted, excellent raises, am highly valued, etc. Meanwhile, we have hired several people over the past two years who WERE employed, via referral/networking. And guess what. They mostly suck. They're just not gaining any traction, are very frustrating to work with, overlook numerous mistakes and it's really bringing down our team. We are disappointed in them, for the most part.

There truly are situations where decent employees get laid off (like I did four years ago) and end up thriving at their next job, despite being hired while unemployed. But you really just don't know how good or bad someone will be on the job until they work for a while.

With regard to the thread topic, I don't blame unemployed people for refusing to work for exploitation level wages. Job seekers have every right to refuse a non-living wage. Any business that can't pay a minimum living wage is not a viable business. It's a shame. It's almost as if America can only operate if a huge portion of the working population accepts slave wages.

Employment should be a two way bargain between employer and employee. That seems to have eroded over the past 40 years in favor of the employer. Over the past 40 years, capitalists have successfully convinced the public that anything that directly benefits ordinary workers is bad for the country and economy. People ain't buying it anymore.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by nep321

With regard to the thread topic, I don't blame unemployed people for refusing to work for exploitation level wages. Job seekers have every right to refuse a non-living wage.

As long as government does not subsidize their choice, I am fine with them not working.

Their wage levels, like ours, reflect their fair market value. If you have the same skills as a 16 year old at their first job, you are not worth more simply due to not keeping your lifestyle in sync with your skill sets.

[nep321]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

As long as government does not subsidize their choice, I am fine with them not working.

Their wage levels, like ours, reflect their fair market value. If you have the same skills as a 16 year old at their first job, you are not worth more simply due to not keeping your lifestyle in sync with your skill sets.

But in any and all employment situations, all employees should at least be paid a living wage, regardless of skillset, market value and all that nonsense. I don't care if you're flipping burgers. You should still be paid at least enough to survive a minimal standard of living and not be living in poverty. We're talking about human beings here.

I agree, government should not subsidize their wages. Employers should PAY a living wage. And if they can't afford to, then they don't have a viable business model and shall go out of business and try again when they do have a viable business model.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by nep321

But in any and all employment situations, all employees should at least be paid a living wage, regardless of skillset, market value and all that nonsense. I don't care if you're flipping burgers. You should still be paid at least enough to survive a minimal standard of living and not be living in poverty. We're talking about human beings here.

McD's employees survive every day. I do not think we should interfere in what those wages are. I've met many working much more than 40 hours..nothing wrong with that at all.

I also do not consider anyone sane who chooses to have a family before adding skills. Its not our job or governments to subsidize their idiotic lack of common sense, drive, work ethic, etc. McJobs are fine for teens and retirees, but not for prime of working years folks. I feel no remorse if they need to be a boarder if that is all their lifestyle choices afford them.

[nep321]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

McD's employees survive every day. I do not think we should interfere in what those wages are. I also do not consider anyone sane who chooses to have a family before adding skills. Its not our job or governments to subsidize their idiotic lack of common sense, drive, work ethic, etc. McJobs are fine for teens and retirees, but not for prime of working years folks. I feel no remorse if they need to be a boarder if that is all their lifestyle choices afford them.

You know, the typical minimum wage employee is not a teen or retiree, but is a middle aged woman. I don't care about drive, work ethic, etc. It's human time and should be paid enough to survive. Every job is important whether it's flipping burgers or performing brain surgery.

The minimum wage was always meant to be a living wage. But over the past 40 years, capitalists have convinced the public otherwise and fought tooth and nail to keep it as low as possible, while they ran away with record profits AND massive tax breaks. It's disgusting, I'm sorry.

Government should absolutely have wage standards and private enterprise must comply or face legal action. I would like to see the government play a much bigger role in controlling wages and prices in this country. And more social ownership of enterprises.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by nep321

You know, the typical minimum wage employee is not a teen or retiree, but is a middle aged woman.

That's nice. It does not modify the fact these are entry level jobs requiring no previous skill, education, or training. Hence the pay is usually minimum wage plus a quarter or so an hour. That's fair, as MW is suited for minimum skill..no matter how many decades came and went w/o acquiring any skills.

The good news is these folks are surviving. They simply need to right size how they live with their earning capability.

[nep321]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

That's nice. It does not modify the fact these are entry level jobs requiring no previous skill, education, or training. Hence the pay is usually minimum wage plus a quarter or so an hour. That's fair, as MW is suited for minimum skill..no matter how many decades came and went w/o acquiring any skills.

The good news is these folks are surviving. They simply need to right size how they live with their earning capability.

They're only surviving because they need to rely on government assistance (i.e. corporate welfare) just to get by! Their wages are so LOW that they qualify for all kinds of help like section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicaid, etc. You think that's a viable configuration of our economy??

If they simply got paid the minimum living wage as FDR intended it to be, they would survive without government assistance.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by nep321

If they simply got paid the minimum living wage as FDR intended it to be, they would survive without government assistance.

FDR set it up at 25 cents/hour, equal to $4.74 today. Our 2021 MW is more than 150% as high as FDR's quarter, adjusted for inflation. So in keeping with your logic, the MW should be cut to $4.74, to abide by FDR's wishes.

$1 then = $18.94 now.


https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inf...01%2C778.56%25.

https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/flsa1938