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1. Yes. Yes it is. You can get a house in CT for 500k and pay 15k a year in taxes on in a beautiful suburb like Farmington, Simsbury, Trumbull or Madison. That would be 1mil+ with 10-12k property taxes in Wellesley, Hingham, Westwood, Canton, etc etc.
2. No. Mass towns are not functional for what they are. They are impractical. The roads are often poor quality, limited/no TOD, severe NIMBYism, horrid alcohol licensing laws, big no for me.
3. Just regular food. In CT, its better imho.
4.
5. Sure. But Urban MA suburbs? not so much.
6. No. Suburban Boston compared to SWCT/CCT feels way more New Englandy.
Point is, if you want A quality for a good price, you will not get that in MA. CT, you will.
But it's still large of dependent on Massachusetts and new york. If I look around at who actually owns the businesses around me they're all out of state entities even if they look like they're locals. And all the major Employers in the state of Connecticut follow under this. I'm not talking about a company that just moved I'm talking about actual buyouts.
There's much more in the way of nimbyism in Connecticut because 40b has a long history in Massachusetts going back decades before that 8:32g. And then you look at some of the policies I mean Massachusetts desegregated schools way before Connecticut did Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage way before Connecticut did Massachusetts had mandates for healthcare way before Connecticut did. Yes I'll give you that Connecticut doesn't have an open container law and doesn't have a helmet law and still allows for happy hour.
As for Road quality in Massachusetts is predominantly based on chapter 90 which itself is based on population growth and economic expansion which is why you'll see pristine roads and the 128 belt but you're going to look at ones that look like they were bombed by another country in the Berkshires.
Given the bond rating by Moody's and S&P yes the towns are still practical I don't think any municipality for the most part in all of New England is facing a municipal solvency problem. But your major barometer for actual performance is growth and without population growth it makes economic growth quite a bit harder. We see that on a larger scale and a smaller scale. Eventually we're going to see employers leave Connecticut since they can't find enough people. It makes little sense to expand into a place that doesn't have a growing Workforce. Yes the state did benefit from covid to a point of work from home but unless restart seeing people in the state have two three or four jobs at the same time it's going to be hard to justify.
Indeed I did get a nice price for my house way below what I pay in Massachusetts but having said that it was during the pandemic and the population the town itself hasn't grown in decades and is down 5%. I live by two closed schools. Then there's the empty shops and restaurants because the population dropped. If you just want to be a drop off area for Amazon you can pick any place in the country for that. Oddly I'm being courted by opportunities in Massachusetts at a far bigger rate than Connecticut paying significantly higher wages as well and offering more hybrid options.
So yes I can make the argument that Connecticut is a nice place to buy a house and I don't really have that much for worries of my house. But the second I go outside I have to go to any other place outside the state in order to get decent groceries or find better jobs and have better shopping and go for entertainment Etc. Imagine if you rewrote Star Trek and they never left the USS enterprise. That's what it feels like. You have to go outside and about and that's what you have
No way, 15K sounds way too high for 500 market value.
Assume town value of 400K assessed at 70% with a higher 30 mill rate would be in the area of $8500/yr.
You are about right.
Here is a house in Trumbull for sale $600,000 with taxes of $9,963. That's about an average price for a Trumbull house. Average is about $500,000 to $600,000 in Trumbull. https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/...e/pid_50518428
The town has an appraisal of $411,700 with assessment of $288,190 on the house above. Trumbull mill rate is 33.64.
But it's still large of dependent on Massachusetts and new york. If I look around at who actually owns the businesses around me they're all out of state entities even if they look like they're locals. And all the major Employers in the state of Connecticut follow under this. I'm not talking about a company that just moved I'm talking about actual buyouts.
There's much more in the way of nimbyism in Connecticut because 40b has a long history in Massachusetts going back decades before that 8:32g. And then you look at some of the policies I mean Massachusetts desegregated schools way before Connecticut did Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage way before Connecticut did Massachusetts had mandates for healthcare way before Connecticut did. Yes I'll give you that Connecticut doesn't have an open container law and doesn't have a helmet law and still allows for happy hour.
As for Road quality in Massachusetts is predominantly based on chapter 90 which itself is based on population growth and economic expansion which is why you'll see pristine roads and the 128 belt but you're going to look at ones that look like they were bombed by another country in the Berkshires.
Given the bond rating by Moody's and S&P yes the towns are still practical I don't think any municipality for the most part in all of New England is facing a municipal solvency problem. But your major barometer for actual performance is growth and without population growth it makes economic growth quite a bit harder. We see that on a larger scale and a smaller scale. Eventually we're going to see employers leave Connecticut since they can't find enough people. It makes little sense to expand into a place that doesn't have a growing Workforce. Yes the state did benefit from covid to a point of work from home but unless restart seeing people in the state have two three or four jobs at the same time it's going to be hard to justify.
Indeed I did get a nice price for my house way below what I pay in Massachusetts but having said that it was during the pandemic and the population the town itself hasn't grown in decades and is down 5%. I live by two closed schools. Then there's the empty shops and restaurants because the population dropped. If you just want to be a drop off area for Amazon you can pick any place in the country for that. Oddly I'm being courted by opportunities in Massachusetts at a far bigger rate than Connecticut paying significantly higher wages as well and offering more hybrid options.
So yes I can make the argument that Connecticut is a nice place to buy a house and I don't really have that much for worries of my house. But the second I go outside I have to go to any other place outside the state in order to get decent groceries or find better jobs and have better shopping and go for entertainment Etc. Imagine if you rewrote Star Trek and they never left the USS enterprise. That's what it feels like. You have to go outside and about and that's what you have
You really have a very narrow and unrealistic view of Connecticut. You live in an old mill border town which you think is representative of the rest of the state. You also keep saying Connecticut relies on Massachusetts when that is completely incorrect. Because you live in a small border town, of course you are going to find some businesses owned by out of staters but as I have shown you before, it’s not that true elsewhere. I also showed you that if anything the opposite is true. Connecticut residents own many businesses in western Massachusetts (Max Restaurants, Big Y, Friendly’s, etc.).
You also choose to go shopping in Massachusetts when there is as good or better shopping and entertainment here. Instead of going over the border why don’t you go to Vernon or Manchester or heck even West Hartford. Furthermore if you go to the many shopping centers in Enfield, you’ll see almost as many Massachusetts cars as Connecticut ones.
I also disagree with you about jobs. There are a lot of well paying jobs here. I certainly don’t have to go to Massachusetts to find them. A lot of western Massachusetts residents work in Connecticut, certainly more than the other way around. Again it seems to be your bias more than fact. Jay
1. Yes. Yes it is. You can get a house in CT for 500k and pay 15k a year in taxes on in a beautiful suburb like Farmington, Simsbury, Trumbull or Madison. That would be 1mil+ with 10-12k property taxes in Wellesley, Hingham, Westwood, Canton, etc etc.
2. No. Mass towns are not functional for what they are. They are impractical. The roads are often poor quality, limited/no TOD, severe NIMBYism, horrid alcohol licensing laws, big no for me.
3. Just regular food. In CT, its better imho.
4.
5. Sure. But Urban MA suburbs? not so much.
6. No. Suburban Boston compared to SWCT/CCT feels way more New Englandy.
Point is, if you want A quality for a good price, you will not get that in MA. CT, you will.
Is the food better in CT? How? I hated the food option when I lived in Hartford. CT was a lot of Italian food.... in MA there was way more variety between Italian, Irish fare, West African Cuisine, Portugues, MUCH better Chinese and Vietnamese food. More variety in Caribbean food.
Everything else I agree- has real benefits. but the food? I do not see it. The real advantage the only advantage in CT for recreation of any type over MA is access to NYC and more disposable income in general. It excels in how its towns look, and its people.
And topography ..kind of. Obviously Marthas Vineyard vs Berkshire vs Merrimack vs Springfield is quite different. But if you're talking about generally populated suburbia..then alright.
1? Depends where in CT and where in Mass. FFC and the 128 belt are expensive there's no way around that. By housing you also have to see the taxes as well. A 450K house in eastern mass might have 5K or less in property taxes, western mass it might be 10K (longmeadows). Lower prices mean higher tax rates.
2? Uh no. Not after the foundation issues came out. I could illustrate a number of different laws, rules and regs. There's a reason why much of CT still runs on Ma. Most towns don't do nearly the same things that you think they do. They aren't running their own pensions, water/sewer systems, educational (often regional due to low populations), mutual aid for fire, some police rely more on state etc. Then the economic development is just tell them go to Hartford or New Haven.
3? Do you mean food access? Quality of restaurants etc?
4? It's the same really. The berkshires can be colder but that's due to the elevations.
5..there's much bigger hills in western mass. Easthampton alone is a big hill. the views of the valley are pretty interesting from Springfield looking around. You can be on on Mt. Greylock and see 90 miles away.
6..no not even close. When I go to western mass, central mass it feels much more like a town that involved significant planning and history. Historical districts are much more developed and protected. Mystic village is fine and I get that but recently I went to Sturbridge Village. Then there's historic deerfield, lexington and concord and all the ethnic festivals (Irish, Polish, Puerto Rican, Armenian etc). I see much more development in Mass vs CT.
Hartford was this huge mecca for financial and insurance jobs but work from home eroded it. I've been there a few times in the past months. Went to a conference and outside of those attending there weren't that many there. Went back again for that Pratt street event. It's small and there's still too many empty places. A liquor store, hair salon, music, good coffee and arts and some dancing...that's Arts on Main in Stafford. 90% less of the population but the same crowd and vibe as Hartford. Stafford Springs Arts on Main
Market rate housing in Hartford looks like public housing in Holyoke, literally looks like the the same architect. Look at Sage Allen and then Lyman Terrance. The siding, the windows, the courtyard etc
CT does have potential for things to happen but it has to have towns talking to each other and businesses coming together rather than staying in the office all day. It doesn't feel nearly as a state as others.
1. A $450,000 house in eastern Massachusetts is likely very modest so of course taxes are going to be less. As I have shown on this forum MANY times before, taxes on comparable homes in comparable communities in Massachusetts have no lower taxes than Connecticut.
2. I have no idea what the foundation issues in Connecticut have to do with how well towns are run here. There was no way to know the aggregate being used would deteriorate concrete. The towns have NOTHING to do with that. Most towns in Connecticut do run their own pensions, schools, fire and police. Only very small towns rely on state or regional services for these and they do that because it makes sense financially to do it. That goes for sewers and water too. They tend to be more based on the watershed they are in rather than town. That means they can cross town lines more often than not.
3. The weather is not the same here as Massachusetts. Boston gets an average of 48 inches of snow, Hartford gets 38 inches. New Haven gets 29 inches.
6. You compare one market rate project in downtown Hartford to public housing in Massachusetts. Sage Allen townhouses we’re built as student housing for area colleges so they were built at lower cost. That one project is hardly representative of market rate housing being built elsewhere. It is a fluke. Look at The Pennant or Park & Main. They are much more upscale.
I doubt very many people in Hartford venture to Stafford. Once again, the one event you mention may not have been well attended but others are. I’m tired of telling you that. Jay
You really have a very narrow and unrealistic view of Connecticut. You live in an old mill border town which you think is representative of the rest of the state. You also keep saying Connecticut relies on Massachusetts when that is completely incorrect. Because you live in a small border town, of course you are going to find some businesses owned by out of staters but as I have shown you before, it’s not that true elsewhere. I also showed you that if anything the opposite is true. Connecticut residents own many businesses in western Massachusetts (Max Restaurants, Big Y, Friendly’s, etc.).
You also choose to go shopping in Massachusetts when there is as good or better shopping and entertainment here. Instead of going over the border why don’t you go to Vernon or Manchester or heck even West Hartford. Furthermore if you go to the many shopping centers in Enfield, you’ll see almost as many Massachusetts cars as Connecticut ones.
I also disagree with you about jobs. There are a lot of well paying jobs here. I certainly don’t have to go to Massachusetts to find them. A lot of western Massachusetts residents work in Connecticut, certainly more than the other way around. Again it seems to be your bias more than fact. Jay
I didn't say it was representative of the whole state obviously FFC is dependent on NYC and not Mass. You didn't mention what I said about NYC. If NYC were to be take off how much less income would FFC have? Come on now I've known people there for decades and we all know it attracted people decades ago when CT didn't have an income tax. It didn't cause them to move back though. As for seeing plates until CT really legalizes marijuana and allows shops you'll continue to see plenty of CT plates in mass buying it. It's like seeing Mass plates in New Hampshire getting fireworks.
Yeah there are some good paying jobs in the state, no doubt. But if we don't have a population to fill them chances are eventually they'll move to where they can find people. Unless someone is going to live in CT on the cheap (which I can say for myself but I'm more of an outlier) it's going to be hard. If virtual work can go anywhere and physical goes to where they can find people. I get it, FFC is loaded with people and growth I'm not arguing that. But if you go to Windham County and Tolland are much lower in population vs FFC. The argument should be about spreading growth.
Big Y's HQ is is in Mass. Max Hospitality is fine but so is the Bean Group. Again restaurants on both sides. Bean is a interesting group of people I've met Picknelly.
I've been to Manchester plenty of times but it isn't always what I needed. West Hartford not really. Enfield meh...it's the same box stores as anywhere else. Sadly sometimes it's just box stores these days and there's not really that much of a difference between one on one side and one on the other. The Gap in Manchester is the same as the Gap in Springfield. The only exception I really found is Aldi is allowed to sell beer in its stores in CT and technically wine in VT (made the trek once) but none in Mass. I go to Vernon for aldi but if the meat is lacking I'd go to the Bunny place.
When my girlfriend searched recently for things to do in CT this weekend it said to go to New Hampshire! I thought the NH was New Haven but it wasn't.
Is the food better in CT? How? I hated the food option when I lived in Hartford. CT was a lot of Italian food.... in MA there was way more variety between Italian, Irish fare, West African Cuisine, Portugues, MUCH better Chinese and Vietnamese food. More variety in Caribbean food.
Everything else I agree- has real benefits. but the food? I do not see it. The real advantage the only advantage in CT for recreation of any type over MA is access to NYC and more disposable income in general. It excels in how its towns look, and its people.
And topography ..kind of. Obviously Marthas Vineyard vs Berkshire vs Merrimack vs Springfield is quite different. But if you're talking about generally populated suburbia..then alright.
Sure Boston has a better food scene, but I should have been more clear on what I meant. But how often is someone in Lakewood, Carver, Randolph, Wellesley, Tewksbury, Ipswich and Wakefield going to Boston to get this? I was talking more suburbs, since thats what I thought we were on about. Like down the street how likely are your local spots going to slap. In CT they most certainly slap 99% of the time.
CT, in my experience, has a much better local cuisine and the food in the suburbs w/o having to go to big cities is better than MA suburbs.
But to be clear, im talking about where people live. The suburbs and exurbs.
I didn't say it was representative of the whole state obviously FFC is dependent on NYC and not Mass. You didn't mention what I said about NYC. If NYC were to be take off how much less income would FFC have? Come on now I've known people there for decades and we all know it attracted people decades ago when CT didn't have an income tax. It didn't cause them to move back though. As for seeing plates until CT really legalizes marijuana and allows shops you'll continue to see plenty of CT plates in mass buying it. It's like seeing Mass plates in New Hampshire getting fireworks.
Yeah there are some good paying jobs in the state, no doubt. But if we don't have a population to fill them chances are eventually they'll move to where they can find people. Unless someone is going to live in CT on the cheap (which I can say for myself but I'm more of an outlier) it's going to be hard. If virtual work can go anywhere and physical goes to where they can find people. I get it, FFC is loaded with people and growth I'm not arguing that. But if you go to Windham County and Tolland are much lower in population vs FFC. The argument should be about spreading growth.
Big Y's HQ is is in Mass. Max Hospitality is fine but so is the Bean Group. Again restaurants on both sides. Bean is a interesting group of people I've met Picknelly.
I've been to Manchester plenty of times but it isn't always what I needed. West Hartford not really. Enfield meh...it's the same box stores as anywhere else. Sadly sometimes it's just box stores these days and there's not really that much of a difference between one on one side and one on the other. The Gap in Manchester is the same as the Gap in Springfield. The only exception I really found is Aldi is allowed to sell beer in its stores in CT and technically wine in VT (made the trek once) but none in Mass. I go to Vernon for aldi but if the meat is lacking I'd go to the Bunny place.
When my girlfriend searched recently for things to do in CT this weekend it said to go to New Hampshire! I thought the NH was New Haven but it wasn't.
It is ludicrous to suppose New York City wasn’t there. It is also ludicrous to say that the lack of an income tax was why Connecticut was attractive to New Yorkers. Last I looked, Connecticut is just as attractive as ever and we’ve had the income tax for 31 years. It didn’t stop them from moving here before Covid nor afterwards either.
You also missed my point about Big Y. It is owned by the D’Amour family which many members live in Connecticut.
I’m not sure what you want or need that you can’t find in Connecticut. That’s the point, there are major shopping areas in Vernon, Manchester and West Hartford. They have just about everything you could need or want. I don’t know anything you could find in western Massachusetts that you can’t find there.
And yet again you missed my point, the fact that the shopping centers in Enfield are full of Massachusetts cars shows that many come here to shop. If there was so much in western Massachusetts, you wouldn’t see that.
I don’t know what your girlfriend searched but there’s lots to do here this weekend. Goodspeed has a great show, Christmas in Connecticut. Little Theater in Manchester has In the Heights. There’s a Beerfest at Foxwoods as well as Boys II Men, a comedy show and a bunch of other entertainment. Mohegan Sun has the Basketball Hall of Fame Tipoff and Little Texas band has well as comedy shows, a drag show and music offerings. Not sure what more you’d want. Jay
But it's still large of dependent on Massachusetts and new york. If I look around at who actually owns the businesses around me they're all out of state entities even if they look like they're locals. And all the major Employers in the state of Connecticut follow under this. I'm not talking about a company that just moved I'm talking about actual buyouts.
There's much more in the way of nimbyism in Connecticut because 40b has a long history in Massachusetts going back decades before that 8:32g. And then you look at some of the policies I mean Massachusetts desegregated schools way before Connecticut did Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage way before Connecticut did Massachusetts had mandates for healthcare way before Connecticut did. Yes I'll give you that Connecticut doesn't have an open container law and doesn't have a helmet law and still allows for happy hour.
As for Road quality in Massachusetts is predominantly based on chapter 90 which itself is based on population growth and economic expansion which is why you'll see pristine roads and the 128 belt but you're going to look at ones that look like they were bombed by another country in the Berkshires.
Given the bond rating by Moody's and S&P yes the towns are still practical I don't think any municipality for the most part in all of New England is facing a municipal solvency problem. But your major barometer for actual performance is growth and without population growth it makes economic growth quite a bit harder. We see that on a larger scale and a smaller scale. Eventually we're going to see employers leave Connecticut since they can't find enough people. It makes little sense to expand into a place that doesn't have a growing Workforce. Yes the state did benefit from covid to a point of work from home but unless restart seeing people in the state have two three or four jobs at the same time it's going to be hard to justify.
Indeed I did get a nice price for my house way below what I pay in Massachusetts but having said that it was during the pandemic and the population the town itself hasn't grown in decades and is down 5%. I live by two closed schools. Then there's the empty shops and restaurants because the population dropped. If you just want to be a drop off area for Amazon you can pick any place in the country for that. Oddly I'm being courted by opportunities in Massachusetts at a far bigger rate than Connecticut paying significantly higher wages as well and offering more hybrid options.
So yes I can make the argument that Connecticut is a nice place to buy a house and I don't really have that much for worries of my house. But the second I go outside I have to go to any other place outside the state in order to get decent groceries or find better jobs and have better shopping and go for entertainment Etc. Imagine if you rewrote Star Trek and they never left the USS enterprise. That's what it feels like. You have to go outside and about and that's what you have
Thank you for putting in that Star Trek bit. It made reading thru this thread all the more worthwhile.
Sure Boston has a better food scene, but I should have been more clear on what I meant. But how often is someone in Lakewood, Carver, Randolph, Wellesley, Tewksbury, Ipswich and Wakefield going to Boston to get this? I was talking more suburbs, since thats what I thought we were on about. Like down the street how likely are your local spots going to slap. In CT they most certainly slap 99% of the time.
CT, in my experience, has a much better local cuisine and the food in the suburbs w/o having to go to big cities is better than MA suburbs.
But to be clear, im talking about where people live. The suburbs and exurbs.
I really don't spend time in MA suburbs. If I do it's where major food/shopping is (Braintree/Quincy/Brookline) or more ethnic burbs (Randolph/Everett). I really have no clue what the food is like in Tewksbury. Randolph does have bad food at all- used to eat thre every now and then. Some decent American fare, chains like Outback, Vietnamese, Jamaican and others. Idk its not bad whenI compare it to like..Bridgewater.
I just went up to Lowell on Friday when I was in MA- had some amazingCambodian food (a ground quail dish) at Phnom Penh.
I just know Hartford was severely lacking but I do love New Haven pizza and expect FFC to have good food.
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