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Old 08-16-2018, 11:47 PM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,689,558 times
Reputation: 37905

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I've "known" westom from back in the usenet days under a different 'nym. He does know his s***, far far better than others.

Bottom line: whole house surge protector, ground rod that has been tested by the proper equipment to provide a low resistance to the water table or whatever constitutes the local primary ground potential "reservoir", all incoming telco and cable grounds tied to that exact same ground rod as close to the electrical entrance as possible. Anything less and anything ancillary to that presents the possibility of "ground loops" and damage.

He and I have minor quibbles about the effects of the false leaders and RF induction potential and conductivity over surfaces that normally act as insulators to low voltage DC, but he was the one who convinced me of the overall superiority of single point grounding, when at all possible.
I have no doubt about the knowledge shown. I do, however, prefer a shorter explanation. Once a post gets to a certain length readers lose interest unless it is a subject they have more than a passing interest in. Those who don't do not benefit from long winded explanations. Keep it short and to the point for the rest of us.

If I don't seem grateful for the knowledge imparted, I am. Too much to wade through to garner the wanted information is the problem. Perhaps I'll go back at some time and read it all.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:10 PM
 
141 posts, read 211,951 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
I have no doubt about the knowledge shown. I do, however, prefer a shorter explanation.
Yes, once a post reaches a few paragraphs, then many eyes glaze over. Same reason why so many knew that smoking cigarettes increase health, that communist were conspiring in the State Department, the lies of Vietnam, and Saddam's WMDs.

The fewer who need many paragraphs can see through urban myths and lies. Honesty requires many paragraphs and numbers. It if does not say why, quantitatively, then it is probably a lie.

Many do not want to know why. Many want to be told how to think. Many don't want to know how to separate myths and lies from hard facts. Meanwhile nothing honest can be said in 5 paragraphs. Especially when so much hype and fables have promoted a completely different belief.

Above was the executive summary. It only introduced what actually works. Other critical facts such as a the 'primary' protection layer were not yet discussed. Above is only a 'secondary' protection layer. Plenty more to learn.

Spend less than what so many spend on plug-in protectors. But that requires one to read more than just those introductory posted paragraphs. Many half truths and myths previously taught by hearsay and advertising must be unlearned. For most, that alone is difficult.

All is based in concepts originally introduced in elementary school science and Ben Franklin. Simple concepts such as equipotential are relevant. A specification number necessary to select a 'whole house' protector was not even mentioned. Only one example of low impedance was discussed. We have hardly begun to discuss what is necessary. In part because so many fables and disbeliefs complicate everything.

Only introduced is effective protection. Unfortunately many if not most only want to be told how to think. Those are not the target audience.

Again, how to separate fables and lies from reality? Reality takes many times more paragraphs. It always says why. Those whys are quantified (since subjective reasoning is also called junk science).

Introduced what does best protection even from lightning. And costs so many times less money. The relevant soundbyte is this. Effective protection always says where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Where do you want to begin? Or have eyes glazed over?
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:35 PM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,689,558 times
Reputation: 37905
You do like the sound of your own voice. I prefer brevity.

Enjoy your soliloquizes. I won't indulge.

Thanks anyway.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:47 PM
 
141 posts, read 211,951 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
I prefer brevity.
Brevity is why Saddam had WMDs. And therefore advocated the death of 5000 America servicemen for no purpose. Brevity is why scams are so profitable. Too many want soundbytes - not honesty.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:53 PM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,689,558 times
Reputation: 37905
And there's the sound of your own voice again. I recognize the need. I don't have it. I can extract the required information w/o out the long winded, opinionated ego.

You are on ignore.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:43 PM
 
6,360 posts, read 4,181,873 times
Reputation: 13059
For basic protection, I’ve gone with the Square D entire panel surge protector ($120+/- for the device ) and then install a surge protected outlet behind my TV, refrig and washer and a quality surge strip for the computer and printer.

Beyond that, we have no control over a lightening strike!
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:50 PM
 
141 posts, read 211,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickcin View Post
For basic protection, I’ve gone with the Square D entire panel surge protector ($120+/- for the device ) and then install a surge protected outlet behind my TV, ...
What protects the dishwasher, all clocks, furnace (even when not in use), GFCIs, microwave, garage door opener, doorbell, central air, dimmer switches, and the most critical item if a surge exists - smoke detectors? Only a Square D protector is effective. And only if it connects low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to what actually does all protection - single point earth ground.

Unfortunately too many assume a box does the work. It doesn't. A protector is only a connecting device to what does protection. That Square D protector (if properly installed) can do that. Those other protectors connect to earth how? Sometimes destructively via any nearby appliance. A threatened appliance need not even be connected to that protector.

But again, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

A sufficiently sized 'whole house' protector even sold in Lowes and Home Depot for as little as $60. To have any relevance, that (and all previous posts) must include perspective. "A sufficiently sized" is defined by a numbers. A typically lighting strike is 20,000 amps. So a minimal protector is 50,000 amps. Because effective protectors must remains functional for many decades after many direct lightning strikes.

If a solution is properly earthed, then nobody even knows a surge exists during thunderstorms. Even those tiny joule plug-in protectors are protected. All this is only the 'secondary' protection layer. Each layer of protection is only defined by the item that does all protection - earth ground (which plug-in protectors do not connect to). A homeowner should also inspect his 'primary' protection layer.

So, does that Square D protector make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground? That defines protection during **each** surge. How many amps is that Square D rated? That defined protector life expectancy over **many** surges.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:03 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,503,278 times
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Westom = "earth ground". I think folks get it, since you've said it a dozen or more times.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:23 AM
 
141 posts, read 211,951 times
Reputation: 135
Brevity is why some have no idea how anything works. They wait for talk show hosts to tell them what to think.

Protection = "earth ground" including a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to and quality of that earth ground. Unfortunately, even that is too difficult and too long for some who prefer to be brainwashed by soundbytes. Another example of why a nation needs immigrants.

Effective protection always says where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:14 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,503,278 times
Reputation: 5295
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Protection = "earth ground" including a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to and quality of that earth ground. Unfortunately, even that is too difficult and too long for some who prefer to be brainwashed by soundbytes. Another example of why a nation needs immigrants.
Your posts are bizarre. You keep making pejorative statements about people with no basis. That affects your credibility, IMHO. There's no need to belittle "some".
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