Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know if anyone else is following this case or not. It interests me because I've worked in the PICU on a teen who was also declared brain dead by the current studies and exams to declare brain death. CA use to have some different laws about which doctors could declare brain death declaration. I'm glad to see Children's Hospital in Oakland fight to make sure a Pediatric Neurologist is the only specialist allowed to examine and interpret testing on this teen.
Few remain on life support until a second opinion from a Stanford Pediatric (Child) Neurologist can be obtained.
Having worked in a large PICU, I have seen children die who shouldn't have. I've also seen children live who should have died. I have seen medical events that can't be explained by medical science.
I do believe in miracles. There is no other way for me to explain clinical events I've seen, for me.
Some of my colleagues also believe in miracles and others do not. A case like this forces each team member to evaluate his/her own personal beliefs while continuing the best clinical practices for the patient.
A negative brain flow means no blood is reaching and providing oxygen for the brain. An EEG will show if the brain has any "electrical activity," kind of similar to a cardiac EKG.
I'm not a calloused person. I empathize with her family. I also know what our PICU had to do with a family who was convinced Jesus would walk through the door and heal their child. It was difficult and emotionally painful to all who provided care for the teen.
I would ask anyone who posts to be respectful of the 13 y.o. teenage girl, her family and their beliefs as well as the beliefs of other posters, including mine. The PICU team I worked with agonies of what to do for three weeks before a decision was made.
Having been there, I say Please God, bless everyone involved.
MSR
Last edited by Mtn. States Resident; 12-24-2013 at 01:40 AM..
Sadly, I see these same families a year or two later, when the insurance has run out, medicine says that is it, your daughter won't get any better. She has TBI, is in a wheelchair, often blind, partially deaf, with speech problems, fine and gross motor atrophy.
These parents want the daughter they had back, the family continues to hope that she will come back the way she was...meanwhile, bills mount up, other kids in the family act out, the support system of family and friends fades, the family unit changes, and the pressure is constant.
The house is too small for a wheelchair, the bedroom your daughter shared with her sister can't fit a hospital bed, Mom has to learn how to use a catheter for her daughter, and how to administer anti seizure medication. Dad lost his job, because he missed so much work, and Mom had to stop working, because there was no one to take care of daughter full time. The house payment is due, and there is no money, BTW, we need a specialized van, because our daughter's wheelchair won't fit in the Subaru....
I have held these Moms, as they cried, and struggled with their new reality. Some are accepting, glad to still have their daughter, despite the challenges being a parent of a child with a disability face, others, rage against God, and everyone else.
The divorce rate for parents of a child with a disability, are higher, but more often than not, families stay together, for financial reasons, but the relationship has fatigue.
I wish the best for this family. Whatever that may be.
Couldn't Agree More, IF She Still Has any Brain Activity
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12
Sadly, I see these same families a year or two later, when the insurance has run out, medicine says that is it, your daughter won't get any better. She has TBI, is in a wheelchair, often blind, partially deaf, with speech problems, fine and gross motor atrophy.
These parents want the daughter they had back, the family continues to hope that she will come back the way she was...meanwhile, bills mount up, other kids in the family act out, the support system of family and friends fades, the family unit changes, and the pressure is constant.
The house is too small for a wheelchair, the bedroom your daughter shared with her sister can't fit a hospital bed, Mom has to learn how to use a catheter for her daughter, and how to administer anti seizure medication. Dad lost his job, because he missed so much work, and Mom had to stop working, because there was no one to take care of daughter full time. The house payment is due, and there is no money, BTW, we need a specialized van, because our daughter's wheelchair won't fit in the Subaru....
I have held these Moms, as they cried, and struggled with their new reality. Some are accepting, glad to still have their daughter, despite the challenges being a parent of a child with a disability face, others, rage against God, and everyone else.
The divorce rate for parents of a child with a disability, are higher, but more often than not, families stay together, for financial reasons, but the relationship has fatigue.
I wish the best for this family. Whatever that may be.
Jasper,
I couldn't rep you again so I'll acknowledge your excellent post this way.
I haven't searched for any news about this teen this morning. My understanding was this teen had already met criteria for brain death.
Maybe I should clarify for anyone who may not know what brain death means. In simple words it means a patient, when unhooked from a mechanical ventilator and other medical devices, no longer has functioning brain tissue to breathe on his/her own.
You describe so well families or the remains of what was a family caring for a disabled child who has suffered a TBI. They have just enough brain function they don't met criteria for brain death, but will never be the person s/he was previously.
Perhaps our "tv culture" where problems are resolved in less than 60 minutes feeds some of the misguided thinking, IDK. But few will watch a show accurately portraying a life in the day of these families. You and I have seen it first hand.
I, too, wish the best for the family and all the providers, as those involved with clinical duties for this teen will have their lives forever changed too. One doesn't forget the discussions, court actions, agony of the family and providers.
It is a perspective, on ethics, values, and quality of life. Who makes those types of judgements?
I reflected on this last week, and decided it was not my job to make those decisions. And I am perfectly happy to not be a part of that process.
Jasper,
I can tell you the ethicists and Ethics Board Members of hospitals have an extremely difficult job. It is easier if the medical opinions all agree about the issue.
The person who heads The Ethics Committee with which I'm most familiar, is a physician at peace with himself. How he arrived there after years of practice, I don't know. That is part of why I've encouraged others to pray for all the staff involved. Ethics Boards don't meet except in the worst of patient circumstances.
I, too, have been following this case closely as I work in pediatric health care. It is tragically sad for everyone involved and it sounds like the hospital is trying to be as sensitive as they can be to the family's desires hoping that the family will move toward acceptance of their daughter's death.
I do believe in miracles and I have seen patients experience what I would consider to be miraculous recoveries, but it seems as if this child has experienced brain death and I just can't imagine any of this being reversible at this point. Apparently the family is trying to find a long-term care option for the girl, but she will need a tracheostomy in order to be ventilated for the long term. This would require a surgeon operating on a child who has been declared dead. When a similar situation occurred years back at the hospital that I'm affiliated with, this was the final hurdle that the family could not overcome. There was not a surgeon who would perform the procedure.
My prayers are for the family to find comfort and grace in their daughter's passing.
The argument is not about keeping her on life support, it's about keeping her on life support at the taxpayers or insurance companies expense.
If the family was paying for it, they could keep her on life support forever.
Exactly. This family has no right to use up scarce resources on what is now a hopeless proposition.
I think, in such situations, its not unreasonable to ask for a second opinion. The concept of a court appointed doctor or neurologist is a fair and reasonable one. However, once that person gives his opinion that the patient is clinically dead the taxpayers or an insurance plan should not be under any more burden to pay for the heroic medical services being provided.
I realize there are issues with a family coming to terms with what is a huge, unexpected catastrophe. I don't think giving something like this a week or two is unreasonable. However, I suspect the family would act a whole lot differently if the following dialogue were to take place:
Hospital Administrator: Mr. and Mrs. Smith I am very sorry for this situation. However, the court appointed doctor has now given an opinion that your child has no brain function and is clinically dead. Because she is clinically dead we can no longer bill your insurance for any additional services to be provided. We will have to disconnect your daughter from the ventilators and other machinery.
Mrs. Smith: You can't do that. She is alive. Her heart is beating!
Hospital Administrator: The neurologist says she is brain dead. There is no function in her brain other than that function in her brain stem that makes her heart beat and causes her to breath. These functions will cease when life support is withdrawn. I ask you to consider that these machines are scarce resources which can be used by other patients who will recover.
Mrs. Smith: I insist that you keep her hooked up to these machines. I say she is still alive!
Hospital Administrator: Mrs. Smith, since your insurance will no longer pay for services to your daughter, this amount will be billed directly to you. The cost of this care is $100,000 per day. Can you give me a down payment of $500,000?
Mrs. Smith: Of course I can't! That's what insurance is for.
Hospital Administrator: I understand you own a home.
Mrs. Smith: (nodding head nervously)
Hospital Administrator: Under our state's "Hospital Lien Act" I will file a lien against your home. This means if the bill isn't paid in full within 100 days that the hospital will seek to foreclose on your lien and you will lose your home.
Mrs. Smith: You can't do that!
Hospital Administrator: I'm afraid we can.
[Long Pause]
Mrs. Smith: I guess you'll have to disconnect her.
I don't know if anyone else is following this case or not. It interests me because I've worked in the PICU on a teen who was also declared brain dead by the current studies and exams to declare brain death. CA use to have some different laws about which doctors could declare brain death declaration. I'm glad to see Children's Hospital in Oakland fight to make sure a Pediatric Neurologist is the only specialist allowed to examine and interpret testing on this teen.
Few remain on life support until a second opinion from a Stanford Pediatric (Child) Neurologist can be obtained.
Having worked in a large PICU, I have seen children die who shouldn't have. I've also seen children live who should have died. I have seen medical events that can't be explained by medical science.
I do believe in miracles. There is no other way for me to explain clinical events I've seen, for me.
Some of my colleagues also believe in miracles and others do not. A case like this forces each team member to evaluate his/her own personal beliefs while continuing the best clinical practices for the patient.
A negative brain flow means no blood is reaching and providing oxygen for the brain. An EEG will show if the brain has any "electrical activity," kind of similar to a cardiac EKG.
I'm not a calloused person. I empathize with her family. I also know what our PICU had to do with a family who was convinced Jesus would walk through the door and heal their child. It was difficult and emotionally painful to all who provided care for the teen.
I would ask anyone who posts to be respectful of the 13 y.o. teenage girl, her family and their beliefs as well as the beliefs of other posters, including mine. The PICU team I worked with agonies of what to do for three weeks before a decision was made.
Having been there, I say Please God, bless everyone involved.
MSR
I am hoping that they keep her hooked up indefinitely and sue the bejesus out of the doctor who put her there due to his malpractice. That would seem fair to me.
People put too much trust in conventional medicine. I agree with the mother who said.... "The doctors think they know everything. We'll if they did, she wouldn't be here today". Touche mama.
20yrsinBranson
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Couldn't Agree More, IF She Still Has any Brain Activity
