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No, the "as far as we know" is meant to say that I don't KNOW Vick, his thoughts, his beliefs, or anything since this event has happened. I don't want to judge him TODAY, based on actions that took place 7 years ago when I have not seen him do anything that indicates that he is even the same person that he once was. In other words, I cannot say whether or not he would do it again, so what is the point of trying to prevent him from trying to lead his life, IF he is doing such in a manner that is not harmful to any person, animal, or anything really? Who is being harmed by him choosing to speak at his event? Who is being harmed by him picking up his career in the NFL after he nearly lost it? In other words, what is he doing NOW(not 7 years ago) to show that he is a descipable human being?
I know that 7 years ago I was NOWHERE near the same person I am today. Life has been very humbling for me, I've lost a lot, I've gained a lot too. Anyone who knew me then, can say with certainty that I am NOT the same person I once was. Sure there might some "minor" things that I still do, but overall as a person, my beliefs have changed significantly, and my life has changed significantly. I would hate for people to base their ideas about me NOW, on how I was 7 years ago.
Maybe so. But we don't know, because we don't know what is going on in his head. All we can do is judge him based on his actions and what we KNOW OF about him. And seven years later, what we know is that he has not done it since, that he is really not doing anything harmful to anyone or anything, and that the most he's done is attempted to rebuild his life and move on from his poor decisions. He's even adopted dogs or taken dogs in, for his children. How much longer are we going to hold the decisions he made in the past against the person he is today? Or in your eyes, no matter if he's changed or not, you'll always see him as the man that tortured animals when he was younger, and that you don't care about anything other than what he did to those animals at the time? If that's the case, then so be it.
I had an ex who held grudges like no other. It did not matter if years had went by, he would still bring up past problems and allow them to define our relationship, and me even, no matter that we were older, different, and that I was different and had SHOWN him this through my actions. He did not care. I did not understand it, but understood him--this was just him. He was like that with everyone, and not a forgiving person in general. I am a forgiving person and understand that everything is fluid(and ever-changing, and evolving). In other words I don't see how past mistakes, or decisions should be the end all of who that person is today. Maybe it's a weakness, maybe not, but I believe that human beings are capable of evolving and that Vick is just as capable. Unless he shows me otherwise, I cannot hold what he did against him any longer.
No I meant what I said. Because everything that has been said about who Vick is right now and in the past, is as far as what we KNOW about him based on what we've heard about him, read, saw, etc. I'm basing everything I've said on what we KNOW about him and nothing else.
I still don't understand why you are doing. What do you want? He's not speaking at this function anymore, he has served his time. Why are you still digging up dirt?
I hate articles like this. First of all it's a blog. No journalistic integrity necessary and it's extremely misleading. Coming up with a hypothetical statement, misleads readers into thinking that he said those things.
Blog stated:
Quote:
A few days ago, I noted that Vick has never to this day actually admitted in public the unspeakable acts of torture he personally inflicted on the dogs.
"It's wrong, man," Vick said. "I don't know how many times I gotta tell, I gotta say it. I mean it was wrong. I feel tremendous hurt behind what happened. And, you know, I should've took the initiative to stop it all. And I didn't. And I feel so bad about that now. And I know that I didn't I didn't step up. I wasn't a leader."
Blog stated:
Quote:
But what exactly is that message? Sure, Vick is warning kids not to get drawn into dogfighting. But beyond the scripted words, what message can someone who has yet to admit to anything beyond “poor judgment†really be delivering? I’d say it’s something like this:
“Look at me, kids. And look what you can get away with. You can do the worst thing in the world, but as long as you’re a celebrity and you have a good PR company behind you, you can get away with it. You don’t even have to acknowledge what you did. You’ll spend a token amount of time in prison, and in no time at all you can get back to being a rich, famous star again. Just look at me.
â€
The truth:
Quote:
"So for the cynics who will say, 'You know what? I don't know. Michael Vick might be more concerned about the fact that his career was hurt than dogs were hurt,'" Brown asked.
"I mean, football don't even matter," Vick said. "I deserve to lose that because of what I was doing. I deserve to lose the $130 million and, you know, on the flip side, you know, killing dogs or doing the wrong things, why would, you know, he don't deserve it."
Quote:
Their first effort was in Atlanta last weekend, where Vick talked to children in neighborhoods like the one he grew up in. "I encourage you to love your animals. Whatever animals you have, whether it's a dog, a cat, a reptile, if it's a horse. I so encourage you to love that animal dearly and with all your heart," he said at the event.
It's a message Vick says he never heard when he was a kid in Newport News, Va., where he was first exposed to dogfighting when he was eight years old.
that essay was written THREE YEARS after he got caught.... I think three years should be enough time to express some sort of remorse for the awful things he did.... but apparently, Mr. Mountain, like many of us, hadn't seen any evidence of true remorse as of the time he wrote that......
I still don't understand why you are doing. What do you want? He's not speaking at this function anymore, he has served his time. Why are you still digging up dirt?
I hate articles like this. First of all it's a blog. No journalistic integrity necessary and it's extremely misleading. Coming up with a hypothetical statement, misleads readers into thinking that he said those things.
Maybe so. But we don't know, because we don't know what is going on in his head. All we can do is judge him based on his actions and what we KNOW OF about him. And seven years later, what we know is that he has not done it since, that he is really not doing anything harmful to anyone or anything, and that the most he's done is attempted to rebuild his life and move on from his poor decisions. He's even adopted dogs or taken dogs in, for his children. How much longer are we going to hold the decisions he made in the past against the person he is today? Or in your eyes, no matter if he's changed or not, you'll always see him as the man that tortured animals when he was younger, and that you don't care about anything other than what he did to those animals at the time? If that's the case, then so be it.
I had an ex who held grudges like no other. It did not matter if years had went by, he would still bring up past problems and allow them to define our relationship, and me even, no matter that we were older, different, and that I was different and had SHOWN him this through my actions. He did not care. I did not understand it, but understood him--this was just him. He was like that with everyone, and not a forgiving person in general. I am a forgiving person and understand that everything is fluid(and ever-changing, and evolving). In other words I don't see how past mistakes, or decisions should be the end all of who that person is today. Maybe it's a weakness, maybe not, but I believe that human beings are capable of evolving and that Vick is just as capable. Unless he shows me otherwise, I cannot hold what he did against him any longer.
Last comment before I leave town for a short while:
OK, now we see what is really behind this. You have an ex holding a grudge. You chose to share the personal information. First of all, I doubt you practiced continued animal abuse and cruelty along with tax evasion like Vick did.
One more time: Mistakes are mistakes. Crimes are crimes. Mistakes are usually forgiven much sooner than crimes (and especially crimes of this nature). Those that make mistakes (all of us at one time or another) generally get the benefit of the doubt. Sorry to hear your ex could not do that and could not forgive.
Those that commit crimes (much more serious) generally do not get the benefit of the doubt until a more significant amount of time has passed.
BTW, a person can be forgiving without making excuses for the wrong doer.
That is seriously all I've got on this. He is not speaking. Serves him right. He is still an NFL football player with a big salary none of us can touch. He will be fine. No one needs to feel sorry for this guy...seriously!
When did you arrive at that feeling of disgust, Michael? When did the light go on?" Brown asked.
"When I was in prison. I was disgusted, you know, because of what I let happen to those animals," Vick said. "I could've put a stop to it. I could've walked away from it. I could've shut the whole operation down."
"But you didn't. Why not?" Brown asked.
"But I didn't," Vick acknowledged.
Asked what kept him going, Vick told Brown, "Not being able to say, or tell certain people around me that, 'Look, we can't do this anymore. I'm concerned about my career. I'm concerned about my family.'"
pretty telling words from his own mouth..... not until every single option had run out and he was locked up for tax evasion......
he paid his dues to society for TAX EVASION.... not for dog fighting.....
and if he thought it was so alright and so normal, why did he go to such great lengths to conceal the operation?? ..... maybe because society knows it is immoral and evil and has written laws against it?? he knew it was against the law.... he knew it was wrong.... and yet he CHOSE to engage in it anyway....
no one will EVER be able to justify the torture and abuse of animals in such a manner.... no one....
But, my goodness, they sure do try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith2187
As I said, he grew up thinking it was normal, and once out of that environment probably realized it was "not", or that people didn't see it the same way he did so he concealed it. I never said that he didn't know it was wrong to OTHERS outside of those that he knew that actively did it, only that it was "normal" to HIM and because so many in his life did it, and he grew up doing it, he didn't see it the same way that you or I did. He's not a stupid man though, on some level, especially as he got older he knew there were others with entirely opposite belief systems. And he knew that because that other belief system was the prevailing one, especially in this country, if he was caught, that he would get in trouble. And you mistake me explaining that this was a "normal" thing for him and those around him, as a way to justify why it's okay that he did it. My purpose isn't to justify his behaviors or to even attempt to. I know that it is moot, because you are repulsed by him(again your beliefs are completely opposite his). My only goal is to point out that his perspective on dog-fighting, the reasons he may have derived pleasure or entertainment from it, are influenced by the beliefs that are shared amongst him and the people that he grew up with. If his belief have since changed, and he is no longer doing it, or is at least attuned to how awful it was that he did it in the first place then why continue to hold it against him?
Decisions made years ago, should not haunt him for the rest of his life, as long as he takes the lessons that he learned and decides to reshape how he *once* looked at something(for instance dog-fighting) in a much more different light. He can move on with his life, in a much more positive way and have a positive impact on those that relate to him. At the very least, I don't see how this is harmful.
And he paid his dues even if it's not enough for you. He's contributed to causes for animals, he apologized, he's made speeches about his actions, etc. Would you prefer he go back to jail, for an action he did 7 years ago-and has not done since? Would that somehow make it seem like he's done his "time", if he does more time specifically for animal torture? Even though he hasn't tortured in the last 7 years(as far as we know) and even though he has stepped away from that lifestyle? I mean at what point do people have the ability to move on from past decisions(no matter how faulty they are) if they are trying to lead a much more positive life since those bad decisions took place?
Of course you are trying to justify his actions! You're entire first paragraph is searching for justification.
There is never justification for torture of an innocent animal. Torture for fun; for sport; for the pleasure of watching a living creature drown or be electrocuted. Tell me, why do you try to justify things for which there is no justification?
I would prefer he not own a dog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith2187
So because, once he was caught, and had to "face" the punishment and might not have been sorry "then", he is not sorry now? That was seven years ago. A lot could have changed in his life. It's speculation to assume that he is the same man with the same beliefs about this issue that he had 7 years ago. I remember when I was 17, and got caught in a huge lie to my parents about where I really was that night, when I got home and had to face the music, I didn't want to face it, I wanted to try to make it go away. So I lied to them even more. And of course, I received an awful punishment. There are few people, who won't try to weasel their way out of "trouble" if they can help it. Doesn't matter if they are sorry or not. Not to mention that this was BEFORE he had went to prison, and before he had dealt with his punishment. time has passed since then, can we still assume that he is not "sorry" and that he is not remorseful for his actions? Or do we believe that a person, can never "grow", can never change their ideas about something, and that the decisions they make define who they are forever, even if those decisions are decisions they no longer partake in?
I lied to my parents when I was 17. I was rarely where I said I would be. Are we comparing that to the torture of animals? Because I'm not seeing it.
I believe that a person, any person, who tortures and derives pleasure from it ~ is so damaged that I certainly wouldn't want to associate with them in any form or fashion.
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