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Yes, I am the authority on how I think someone should move on. There's absolutely no reason he can't move on without being glorified and paid to tell his story of murdering dogs.
My life doesn't need fixing. I haven't killed puppies. Thanks.
Keyword here you are the authority over how YOU THINKsomeone should move on.. Your thoughts dont matter to Vick, or the people who chose him to speak at this event because you are not the authority on how VICK needs to move on. If he wants to get in front of a podium and use a mic, he CAN. You may not agree with it but you don't matter. In the grand scheme of things your a no-name individual that is completely irrelevant to Vick. He has paid his dues and right now he can do what he feels he needs to in order to propel his career or reach out to fans.
And maybe you haven't killed puppies but you have made mistakes, you've made bad decisions, you haven't led a perfect life and I know you would loathe strangers on the street that tried to tell you what you needed to do to remedy whatever you did wrong.
Keyword here you are the authority over how YOU THINKsomeone should move on.. Your thoughts dont matter to Vick, or the people who chose him to speak at this event because you are not the authority on how VICK needs to move on. If he wants to get in front of a podium and use a mic, he CAN. You may not agree with it but you don't matter. In the grand scheme of things your a no-name individual that is completely irrelevant to Vick. He has paid his dues and right now he can do what he feels he needs to in order to propel his career or reach out to fans.
And maybe you haven't killed puppies but you have made mistakes, you've made bad decisions, you haven't led a perfect life and I know you would loathe strangers on the street that tried to tell you what you needed to do to remedy whatever you did wrong.
what you and everyone else blinded by his talent at throwing a ball don't get is the following:
1. He never served one single minute of jail time for cruelty, abuse and torture of animals.... he went away for a few months for not paying taxes on the money he made on the blood of those dogs.... or something equally ridiculous and innocuous....
2. He and his thug friends and family derived PLEASURE from the systematic brutal torture and murder of creatures smaller and weaker and dependent upon them for survival.... it was not just one mistake seven years ago.... it was ongoing and would STILL be ongoing if he hadn't been caught..... anyone who ENJOYS inflicting pain and torture and horrible deaths upon smaller and weaker beings has something very, very wrong with a basic piece of their psyche... much the same as a pedophile.... would you be so forgiving of someone who served jail time for not paying taxes on money he made making and selling kiddie porn??
I know what a freudian slip is, it just seems irrational for a human being to say they care about dogs more than humans. That's just ridiculous. This is the reason why I think sooner or later people are going to try to marry their pets. I see it coming.
Keyword here you are the authority over how YOU THINKsomeone should move on.. Your thoughts dont matter to Vick, or the people who chose him to speak at this event because you are not the authority on how VICK needs to move on. If he wants to get in front of a podium and use a mic, he CAN. You may not agree with it but you don't matter. In the grand scheme of things your a no-name individual that is completely irrelevant to Vick. He has paid his dues and right now he can do what he feels he needs to in order to propel his career or reach out to fans.
And maybe you haven't killed puppies but you have made mistakes, you've made bad decisions, you haven't led a perfect life and I know you would loathe strangers on the street that tried to tell you what you needed to do to remedy whatever you did wrong.
Mistakes and crimes (even after time served) are in two different categories. Killing puppies is evil, not a garden variety mistake ordinary people make. Of course, the Raleigh Chamber is the authority. Obviously, we don't have the authority. However, we have the right to express a viewpoint based on our First Amendment rights, common sense and decency. You have the right to yours, too (even if the negative, hostile tone of your post made it difficult to state that). So please respect those that disagree.
No one will be changing anyone else's mind here and Michael Vick will be speaking (believe it is scheduled for Feb. 12). So be a good winner and relax. You got your wish and so did he. Those that opposed it can at least sleep at night.
what you and everyone else blinded by his talent at throwing a ball don't get is the following:
1. He never served one single minute of jail time for cruelty, abuse and torture of animals.... he went away for a few months for not paying taxes on the money he made on the blood of those dogs.... or something equally ridiculous and innocuous....
2. He and his thug friends and family derived PLEASURE from the systematic brutal torture and murder of creatures smaller and weaker and dependent upon them for survival.... it was not just one mistake seven years ago.... it was ongoing and would STILL be ongoing if he hadn't been caught..... anyone who ENJOYS inflicting pain and torture and horrible deaths upon smaller and weaker beings has something very, very wrong with a basic piece of their psyche... much the same as a pedophile.... would you be so forgiving of someone who served jail time for not paying taxes on money he made making and selling kiddie porn??
1. What you don't get, is that there are MILLIONS of people who get away with crimes similar to Vicks, and they don't serve ANY time at all, NOR are they required to apologize, cooperate with PETA, and all the other "things" he needed to do in order to get people to look past his bad decision. There are people who do worse, than him that never pay. There are people that do the SAME thing that he did, and they don't pay either. Nonetheless, he did SERVE time, even if it wasn't for that "exact" issue. He STILL lost his career(even if it was temporary), he faced HARSH public scrutiny, and AGAIN was required to do a variety of things to make amends for his actions BEYOND the jail time. There are people who don't have to do ANY of these things because they never get caught, and even if they do, they are not public figures and therefore it doesn't make the "news" and so there aren't people outraged enough for these "criminals" to pay the same price that vick did for the exact same crime. Dog-fighting has been happening for years, and there are thousands who continue to do it, and those who do pay the price don't pay the same price that he did, some don't pay at all.. No matter how morally incomprehensible you find it, the reality is that once Vick was caught and scrutinized for his actions he ATTEMPTED to try to fix his wrongs and he is now trying to move on with his life as best as he can. Seven years have went by. You don't know him personally, you can't gauge whether he is *sick*, or twisted at the time he did it, NOR can you gauge whether he is now. You certainly don't know if he changed or if he didn't. You are speculating about a man you hardly know, holding his past bad decisions against him, despite what he's done SINCE it's happened.
2. The pleasure you are speaking of, is NOT in the context that you and others like you, assume it is. HE GREW up in a poor area, where dog-fighting and fighting in general was the NORM. It was a form of entertainment. It was the way things were handled. People WATCHED fights amongst humans, the SAME way they watched it amongst the animals. It wasn't as if they got "sick" pleasure watching the dogs get tortured, rather they got *pleasure* or entertainment from the act of fighting itself, whether it was two human beings fighting or two animals. It was about *fighting* as entertainment as a show, not the "people/animals" involved in it beyond who won and how they fought. The pleasure he derived from watching fights (entertainment) can be compared to the same pleasure someone feels when watching a boxing match or a wrestling match. It was along those very same lines. This was the "norm" where he grew up. It's the norm, for a lot of poor inner city youth, this is why they know how to fight, and why fighting and violence is how things are typically solved. This is why crowds might gather when two people are getting ready to squabble? It's entertainment. Is it right to you? NO. Do you understand it? Probably not. Unless you grew up in this environment, saw this on the daily basis, and grew to accept that it was normal and entertaining, you will NOT see this the way Vick did when he was doing it. Sure, he knew on some level that violence between dogs or animals was wrong, but the only reason he knew this was due to the morals and values that were projected by the rest of society about animal cruelty. However in his realm of society, in the environment he grew up in, the friends, and relatives that he knew, animal cruelty was not even something *considered*, or talked about. That was his reality. These people have been dog-fighting for years and some will probably continue to do so. Obviously I feel for the dogs. Just like I feel for the thousands of kids who lose their lives, because of gang violence. This is a way of life. I don't agree with it, but I know it exists. Who am I to try to examine it and designate labels for those who have accepted it as the norm? I don't know whether Vick and all the people that participated are sociopaths or not. It's not my call to make.
Obviously I find pedophiles disgusting. It's against my values. Against what I know. I find it just as troubling as most people do. The reality is that it happens, despite my thoughts of disgust, and there are those that pay for their punishments, some harsh, others not as harsh. There are those that don't. There are those SMALL minority who change, and there are several that do not. If someone does something that I don't agree with, I'll stay away from them and leave it at that. This speech doesn't have anything to do with you, why not just stay away from all things Vick and leave it at that?
Last edited by Faith2187; 02-11-2014 at 05:47 PM..
Mistakes and crimes (even after time served) are in two different categories. Killing puppies is evil, not a garden variety mistake ordinary people make. Of course, the Raleigh Chamber is the authority. Obviously, we don't have the authority. However, we have the right to express a viewpoint based on our First Amendment rights, common sense and decency. You have the right to yours, too (even if the negative, hostile tone of your post made it difficult to state that). So please respect those that disagree.
No one will be changing anyone else's mind here and Michael Vick will be speaking (believe it is scheduled for Feb. 12). So be a good winner and relax. You got your wish and so did he. Those that opposed it can at least sleep at night.
Dog-fighting isn't about killing puppies for the sake of it, it's about the act of fighting between two animals as a form of entertainment, it is the "norm" for youth that grew up in environments like VICK and saw it happen ALL the time. They normalized it. Yes it's sick, but evil? I think violence in general is wrong, unless in self-defense, but I don't know if I'd categorize every act of violence, and *fighting* as necessarily evil. Nor can I say that Vick is evil. I don't know the man.
And I never said you didn't have the right to your view, or to speak your thoughts. This is a public forum. And that gives me the ability to verbally express my disagreement. That person that I responded to, acted as if what he says should go for Vick and the reality is that it just doesn't. He cannot say what ANOTHER person whom he does not know, *doesn't* or does need to move on.
And who said I'm not relaxed? You think I'm being hostile because you don't agree with me. My "tone" is no different that anyone else in this thread that EXPRESSED how they felt. Nice try.
Dog-fighting isn't about killing puppies for the sake of it, it's about the act of fighting between two animals as a form of entertainment, it is the "norm" for youth that grew up in environments like VICK and saw it happen ALL the time. They normalized it. Yes it's sick, but evil? I think violence in general is wrong, unless in self-defense, but I don't know if I'd categorize every act of violence, and *fighting* as necessarily evil. Nor can I say that Vick is evil. I don't know the man.
And I never said you didn't have the right to your view, or to speak your thoughts. This is a public forum. And that gives me the ability to verbally express my disagreement. That person that I responded to, acted as if what he says should go for Vick and the reality is that it just doesn't. He cannot say what ANOTHER person whom he does not know, *doesn't* or does need to move on.
And who said I'm not relaxed? You think I'm being hostile because you don't agree with me. My "tone" is no different that anyone else in this thread that EXPRESSED how they felt. Nice try.
Yes, from your posts we can tell that you are in a relaxed, meditative state. My mistake...LOL. Don't take a poll of the posters on that one please. Nice try.
As to your splitting hairs between the words "sick" and "evil", I personally do not see much difference. Fine, then we'll do it your way and call it "sick" and I will still disagree with the Raleigh Chamber on choosing him to speak.
1. What you don't get, is that there are MILLIONS of people who get away with crimes similar to Vicks, and they don't serve ANY time at all, NOR are they required to apologize, cooperate with PETA, and all the other "things" he needed to do in order to get people to look past his bad decision. There are people who do worse, than him that never pay. There are people that do the SAME thing that he did, and they don't pay either. Nonetheless, he did SERVE time, even if it wasn't for that "exact" issue. He STILL lost his career(even if it was temporary), he faced HARSH public scrutiny, and AGAIN was required to do a variety of things to make amends for his actions BEYOND the jail time. There are people who don't have to do ANY of these things because they never get caught, and even if they do, they are not public figures and therefore it doesn't make the "news" and so there aren't people outraged enough for these "criminals" to pay the same price that vick did for the exact same crime. Dog-fighting has been happening for years, and there are thousands who continue to do it, and those who do pay the price don't pay the same price that he did, some don't pay at all.. No matter how morally incomprehensible you find it, the reality is that once Vick was caught and scrutinized for his actions he ATTEMPTED to try to fix his wrongs and he is now trying to move on with his life as best as he can. Seven years have went by. You don't know him personally, you can't gauge whether he is *sick*, or twisted at the time he did it, NOR can you gauge whether he is now. You certainly don't know if he changed or if he didn't. You are speculating about a man you hardly know, holding his past bad decisions against him, despite what he's done SINCE it's happened.
2. The pleasure you are speaking of, is NOT in the context that you and others like you, assume it is. HE GREW up in a poor area, where dog-fighting and fighting in general was the NORM. It was a form of entertainment. It was the way things were handled. People WATCHED fights amongst humans, the SAME way they watched it amongst the animals. It wasn't as if they got "sick" pleasure watching the dogs get tortured, rather they got *pleasure* or entertainment from the act of fighting itself, whether it was two human beings fighting or two animals. It was about *fighting* as entertainment as a show, not the "people/animals" involved in it beyond who won and how they fought. The pleasure he derived from watching fights (entertainment) can be compared to the same pleasure someone feels when watching a boxing match or a wrestling match. It was along those very same lines. This was the "norm" where he grew up. It's the norm, for a lot of poor inner city youth, this is why they know how to fight, and why fighting and violence is how things are typically solved. This is why crowds might gather when two people are getting ready to squabble? It's entertainment. Is it right to you? NO. Do you understand it? Probably not. Unless you grew up in this environment, saw this on the daily basis, and grew to accept that it was normal and entertaining, you will NOT see this the way Vick did when he was doing it. Sure, he knew on some level that violence between dogs or animals was wrong, but the only reason he knew this was due to the morals and values that were projected by the rest of society about animal cruelty. However in his realm of society, in the environment he grew up in, the friends, and relatives that he knew, animal cruelty was not even something *considered*, or talked about. That was his reality. These people have been dog-fighting for years and some will probably continue to do so. Obviously I feel for the dogs. Just like I feel for the thousands of kids who lose their lives, because of gang violence. This is a way of life. I don't agree with it, but I know it exists. Who am I to try to examine it and designate labels for those who have accepted it as the norm? I don't know whether Vick and all the people that participated are sociopaths or not. It's not my call to make.
Obviously I find pedophiles disgusting. It's against my values. Against what I know. I find it just as troubling as most people do. The reality is that it happens, despite my thoughts of disgust, and there are those that pay for their punishments, some harsh, others not as harsh. There are those that don't. There are those SMALL minority who change, and there are several that do not. If someone does something that I don't agree with, I'll stay away from them and leave it at that. This speech doesn't have anything to do with you, why not just stay away from all things Vick and leave it at that?
As to your last statement and question, I only found out about the planned speech on city data forum..not through other media. Being an NFL fan,I just figured since it was brought up as a thread, I would comment on it.
Your #2 paragraph making excuses for Michael Vick's actions is part of the problem actually and a supreme insult to all those poor children/young adults in those neighborhoods that do not participate in those activities. We do as a society have the right to call such behavior sociopathic and frankly that term may even be too generous. Get a reality check please. We should never make excuses for those actions.
I do not "follow" Michael Vick per se, but because I watch football I will hear something from time to time. I do not remember ever doing an internet search on him. For others here, it may be different.
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Nice try.
