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Old 03-02-2014, 11:32 AM
 
3,433 posts, read 5,744,732 times
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The last president who was going to teach Russia a lesson with sanctions was another Democrat failure...............Jimmy Carter.

He came up with the Russian grain embargo which resulted in the collapse of the farm economy here in the US.

To this day, the name " Jimmy Carter" is akin to swear words in many farm areas of the Midwest !
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:32 AM
 
3,765 posts, read 4,100,265 times
Reputation: 7791
Ukraine has much better internet and cell phone service than the US, and the cost is much less in Ukraine. Anyone with brilliant ideas on improving cell phone and internet service in Ukraine should work on improving the service here in the US first.

Why would we want to "protect" Ukraine from Russia? What is wrong with Russia? Are all of you still living in the times of Soviet Union? Russia is a modern country that wants to be our friend, and the people there are doing just fine. Of course Russia is corrupt, and it denies its people certain rights, but then so is the US corrupt and it also denies its people certain rights. I see very little difference between Russia and the US. The warmongers need to turn their eyes to China. China has vowed to destroy Japan and the entire Western world since the end of WW2. They have had many, many military and civilian drills to prepare for a nuclear war against the US. This is how they thank us for saving their butts in WW2. Too bad we didn't nuke that nation long ago. Right now China is on the verge of a war with Japan. That is very scary since the US has long said that a strike on Japan is the same as a strike on the US.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:33 AM
 
3,433 posts, read 5,744,732 times
Reputation: 5471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Obama claims he wants to rely on diplomacy, but blatantly sticking a thumb in Putin's eye over gays at Sochi used up any good will there may have been remaining in our relationship with Russia. We have a narcisstic fool heading our country.
That's what happens when fools elect an inner city community organizer as president !
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,985,171 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by james777 View Post
Ukraine has much better internet and cell phone service than the US, and the cost is much less in Ukraine. Anyone with brilliant ideas on improving cell phone and internet service in Ukraine should work on improving the service here in the US first.

Why would we want to "protect" Ukraine from Russia? What is wrong with Russia? Are all of you still living in the times of Soviet Union? Russia is a modern country that wants to be our friend, and the people there are doing just fine. Of course Russia is corrupt, and it denies its people certain rights, but then so is the US corrupt and it also denies its people certain rights. I see very little difference between Russia and the US. The warmongers need to turn their eyes to China. China has vowed to destroy Japan and the entire Western world since the end of WW2. They have had many, many military and civilian drills to prepare for a nuclear war against the US. This is how they thank us for saving their butts in WW2. Too bad we didn't nuke that nation long ago. Right now China is on the verge of a war with Japan. That is very scary since the US has long said that a strike on Japan is the same as a strike on the US.
Russia doesn't want to go nuclear on the US, but they don't want to be "friends" either. While the history of Russia/Ukraine conflict goes well back into history, Putin's animosity to the US goes back to 2003 at the latest (obviously as he was KGB, it goes back earlier, but as a politician, he was amenable to the US until around 2003 or so). Putting NATO at Russia's doorstep was infuriating for Putin & Russia. Things have gone steadily downhill since. Highly unlikely it matters who's in the White House, this was coming. Russia can afford to p*ss off the US. They can't afford to p*ss off China. And moving into the Ukraine has little bearing on China.

Makes one nostalgic for when Rob Ford was still in charge over there. Oh, wait... that was Yeltsin.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:02 PM
 
28 posts, read 31,709 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Bankrupt Russia? The West cannot even get North Korea, Cuba, and Iran to that point, yet they think they are going to take one of the world's largest economies off line? You realizing how damaging this would be to the global economy? Are you ready to take a downturn in your standard of living, and possibly your job, over Ukraine?

Ukraine has cell phone service and Internet, ever lived there?

Refugee camps for who? Why would anyone want to leave their house to go live in some scummy refugee camp?

And the US and EU really want to confront Russia over what really is, a bunch of Ukrainians hoping to get EU passports one day soon, and flee to western Europe to live off the welfare system?
You mean, this dispute is "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing."? Or, care little about perhaps. That worked well the last time, to be sure.

The day before yesterday, Belarus; yesterday, Georgia; today the Ukraine; who tomorrow?. The bear is resentful, and hungry, and still cares little for the rights of people including its own, or of nations other than its own. Putin's behaviour is reminiscent of Hitler's during the sequence of events from 1938 leading up to the occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1939. This is not a benevolent parallel, and this will not be lost on western governments.

The West has put up with a lot from Russia, but the EU is not any kind of unified political, economic or military and America does not necessarily occupy the high ground. Moreover, Russia has picked a propitious time to destroy Ukraine if it is minded to.

Russia will probably now manufacture further crises in parts of Ukraine that have ethnically-Russian majorities. Just like in Crimea, local Russians cause "disturbances", call on Russia to "protect them" (from whom, themselves?) and "restore order" (while they themselves are responsible for the disorder?), etc, etc. None of this is in the least original, nor creative, nor imaginative. The Russians think they are on a roll and that there are none to stop them. Worrying, indeed.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:06 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Bankrupt Russia? The West cannot even get North Korea, Cuba, and Iran to that point, yet they think they are going to take one of the world's largest economies off line? You realizing how damaging this would be to the global economy? Are you ready to take a downturn in your standard of living, and possibly your job, over Ukraine?

Ukraine has cell phone service and Internet, ever lived there?

Refugee camps for who? Why would anyone want to leave their house to go live in some scummy refugee camp?

And the US and EU really want to confront Russia over what really is, a bunch of Ukrainians hoping to get EU passports one day soon, and flee to western Europe to live off the welfare system?

Lol now when I think about it, there was a comment on-line made by a Brit I think, who referred to recent riots in Kiev as "EU visa application process getting out of hands"
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:09 PM
 
1,669 posts, read 2,242,950 times
Reputation: 1780
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are confusing Russia with Iran, which it is not.

( As far as economic sanctions against Russia go and chance of their success - this is a good read.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/wo...hpw&rref=world
I was using Iran as an example of how economic sanctions can have an actual impact. Do you understand now?
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,708,189 times
Reputation: 7723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Obama claims he wants to rely on diplomacy, but blatantly sticking a thumb in Putin's eye over gays at Sochi used up any good will there may have been remaining in our relationship with Russia. We have a narcisstic fool heading our country.
But in doing so he gave his gay constiuents warm fuzzies. Doesn't that count for anything?
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:10 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,807,837 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuskar_Rock View Post
You mean, this dispute is "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing."? Or, care little about perhaps. That worked well the last time, to be sure.

The day before yesterday, Belarus; yesterday, Georgia; today the Ukraine; who tomorrow?. The bear is resentful, and hungry, and still cares little for the rights of people including its own, or of nations other than its own. Putin's behaviour is reminiscent of Hitler's during the sequence of events from 1938 leading up to the occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1939. This is not a benevolent parallel, and this will not be lost on western governments.

The West has put up with a lot from Russia, but the EU is not any kind of unified political, economic or military and America does not necessarily occupy the high ground. Moreover, Russia has picked a propitious time to destroy Ukraine if it is minded to.

Russia will probably now manufacture further crises in parts of Ukraine that have ethnically-Russian majorities. Just like in Crimea, local Russians cause "disturbances", call on Russia to "protect them" (from whom, themselves?) and "restore order" (while they themselves are responsible for the disorder?), etc, etc. None of this is in the least original, nor creative, nor imaginative. The Russians think they are on a roll and that there are none to stop them. Worrying, indeed.
No, nothing like "Hitler" (the all familiar Fox News reference); A coup happened in Ukraine, it overthrew an elected president. The US sent troops into Haiti to restore Aristide after a coup, Saudi Arabia sent troops into Bahrain to quell protesters; yet somehow Russia is wrong on this? The US sent troops into Grenada to "protect American students".

In regards to Georgia; Georgia is the one who started the attack, this is not dispute, all global bodies like the US and OSCE hold Georgia responsible for the Russia-Georgia conflict. If US soldiers acting as peacekeepers were attacked, would the US not retaliate? The only think Russia was criticized for was the use of disproportionate amount of force, as if a country is not suppose to use what it has to protect its troops; the US is using multi-million dollar equipment against AK-47 Taliban.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:11 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,807,837 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardspock View Post
I was using Iran as an example of how economic sanctions can have an actual impact. Do you understand now?
Except the US gave China a free pass to import Iranian oil, we would not want to upset our largest creditor and home to US businesses, would we?
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