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It appears clear that reasonable scheduling of appointments at the VA has been a problem for decades and remains one. Gaming the scheduling system had become instituionalized. I expect it was true anywhere...likely VA management who published the truth failed and were replaced.
What I don't understand is why the Vets put up with it. I would be in the same age group as the older vets and I would certainly not wait more than a couple of days for a serious need. And even for an elective visit I am going to do something if it gets to a month or more.
So why are the Vets trapped into the VA? Do they not have Medicare or Medicaid? Or if not why not run off to the emergency room?
I be damned if I am going to sit around dying while waiting for a way out appointment. Why would these guys.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why the Vets have no option but to wait.
My dad was a WW2 vet, when I was a kid he developed kidney disease, without the VA for dialysis no way we could have afforded it. This was back before transplants were working well. 13 years he was on dialysis. Too young for medicare, not poor enough for medicaid. Overall he was treated well there.
I'm a disabled vet, I get full care at the VA, to include dental, which can be very expensive these days. My dentist was excellent, he really did quality work. It costs me nothing. I have my beefs about some of the VA staff but then I recall the nit-wit docs and the lazy nurses my mom had in a private hospital. So you can't really generalize when it comes to quality of care. Some hospitals are run better than others and patient volume and staff in VA facilities vary too. Many of the providers at the VA are as good or better as you will find on the outside, but they have their slugs too and if you get stuck with one of them you will become frustrated and angry. I have had my share over the years. The most important thing is to speak up to the provider with concerns and talk to the patient representative if you are unhappy with the care you are getting, as they can make doc changes and such. I don't think enough people speak up when they feel there is a problem, the military folks are used to doing as their told and waiting. That adds to the problems. One can certainly go to the ER at the VA, that is an option if one can't wait for a routine appointment.
I don't think anyone is hoping something more will show up to add to their health troubles, even if they could possibly get a bit more compensation. As far as government, wasting money, politicians talking endlessly and really being out of touch with the common man's problems, that has been going on for many decades now. There are more similarities than differences between these wealthy politicians. Corporate welfare, the billions spent on the Iraq war, waste is job one.
Welcome to the world of socialized medicine; and does anyone out there still deny that "single payer" --- the darling of the same people who bring us the "climate change" hype -- will force the same gridlock on all of us?
Yeppers, also known as "Obamacare" or "Affordable Health Care"...why do you think those of us familiar with the socialized medicine approach were so opposed to forcing it on EVERYONE???!?!?!?!
I am guessing a lot of the vets are too young for Medicare and make too much month for Medicaid and they also don't have private insurance to pay the cost of making appointments outside of the VA. Ever try getting an appointment in a new doctor's office if you don't have insurance? Not so easy even when you can afford to pay up front.
This. You put it perfectly. Now the sad thing is that we can send these people to the front lines but when they come home they wait around like everyone else. The VA, sadly enough, is actually better than what they'd get without.
I think those that falsified reports to get bonuses should be forced to give them back.
Actually, they should also be prosecuted and sentenced to the full extent the law will allow.
In response to others' question of why, I speculate the typical veteran who found themselves in this predicament could not afford to seek medical care outside the VA.
It appears clear that reasonable scheduling of appointments at the VA has been a problem for decades and remains one. Gaming the scheduling system had become instituionalized. I expect it was true anywhere...likely VA management who published the truth failed and were replaced.
What I don't understand is why the Vets put up with it. I would be in the same age group as the older vets and I would certainly not wait more than a couple of days for a serious need. And even for an elective visit I am going to do something if it gets to a month or more.
So why are the Vets trapped into the VA? Do they not have Medicare or Medicaid? Or if not why not run off to the emergency room?
I be damned if I am going to sit around dying while waiting for a way out appointment. Why would these guys.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why the Vets have no option but to wait.
Vets are trapped in the VA because they don't have other insurance, they apparently have no advocacy services available to them (or at least nobody who actually helps) and I would expect that a lot of them are too damaged by combat to be able to fight this themselves. And a lot of them are frail elderly people. When you talk to these people it is clear they feel their only option is the VA. The scary thing is that maybe that's true.
I see a lot of assumptions and misinformation here.
I am a vet (former USAF officer), I use the VA.
First off, I am not poor, I am not destitute, I am not homeless, I have never touched drugs in my life. I have other options. I can also tell you income has nothing to do with why veterans chose to go to the VA. I opted out of my employers terrible expensive Kaiser or ODS/Moda health plan.
These are my reasons:
1. It's free or cheap. Even veterans with money are notoriously cheap. If you have a service connected disability the VA will see you for free as long as it has to do with your service connected disability. If I were to go with my employers health plan (medical/dental) I would have to pay $445/mo. for just me. That's $5,340 a year...and for what? The real problem is heath insurance. Veterans hate insurance or having to make payments on anything. I hate the idea that I have to pay thousands of dollars per year for something that might happen 25-30 years down the road.
At the VA I pay a COPAY that is equal to 100% of the actual rate for any medical treatment I need. The VA is a 1/3 of the cost of a Kaiser or Adventist hospital even at 100%. Also, our VA is directly connected with Oregon Health Sciences University. My medical costs have been around 2k for 3 years. With my employer plan it would have been 15k for some blood panels, a routine check up and a root canal. The root canal was $1600. So for me it's decent medical care I can pay for out of pocket at a fair price. After seeing the bill for my wife's last hospitalization I realized how overpriced medical care is in the US. $124 for a plastic tube? are you serious? "It's medical grade" Oh, well then its definitely worth $124.
2. Most vets hate the doctors office and are indifferent to the VA or Kaiser or Adventist. It's all the same. If we hate it to begin with and don't want to be there, why pay extra for a little extra comfort and "customer service." Private hospital service doesn't equate to good medical care, as my wife has found out. Some vets feel differently, but most are used to the base clinic which is pretty much the same as the VA. For about 12 years I went to the hospital for 45 minutes per year for them to tell me, everything looks normal, see you at you next PHA.
3. I don't have a problem with the nurses or doctors or the staff. If your an ass hole like 70% of VA patients are then they are less likely to be as sympathetic. A lot of the time when I am at the VA I am much less concerned by the staff than I am by the patients. Jesus, some of them are just downright awful. They aren't nice to anyone.
4. I have never waited longer than 2 weeks for any of my appointments. This is comparable to my wife's health plan she has for the kids. There are a lot of vets that tie up the system. Alcoholics, Drug Seekers, Hypochondriacs, Mental Cases etc. If you are younger and an iraq/enduring freedom vet you get seen fairly quickly.
5. Some vets really love to hang out at the VA and exchange war stories. I don't, I hate that **** because 90% of the time it's most embellished, outlandish story you've ever heard. You just have to nod and pretend to be interested. I'm convinced some vets live at the VA.
That's not to say I condone this problem at all. It's really horrible that someone would cut people out of a waitlist to meet a quota to get a bonus. Get rid of the bonus. Then the headline will read "Vets still waiting 6 months for appointments."
There is no simple solution. The 'waste of my tax payer money' folks would be crying about vets getting the same quality of care they pay for free of charge from gubbumint handouts. The hospitals would complain about all the homeless, dirty, miscreants being sent there (The specialists that get referrals from the VA already do.) Hospitals would be overfilled with hypochondriac homeless Vets. Vets would complain about a lack of transportation and the disconnect between the VA Benefits people and the private healthcare providers.
When I got out, I had no private insurance and thus had no choice. The final straw was when the VA doctor refused to do an eye procedure I had previously had done while in service and needed to have repeated. He just smirked at me as I pleaded my case and instead offered me antibiotic drops.
I ended up going to a private doctor who did the procedure, even though I had to pay out of pocket, it was well worth it and the private doctor knocked down the price by 60% or so when he heard about my VA experience.
I tried to make a dental appointment but after they told me that the soonest appt was in 7 months, I realized that I needed to get private insurance.
i am guessing a lot of the vets are too young for medicare and make too much month for medicaid and they also don't have private insurance to pay the cost of making appointments outside of the va. Ever try getting an appointment in a new doctor's office if you don't have insurance? Not so easy even when you can afford to pay up front.
A few thoughts that I am sure many will disagree with.
VA budget has doubled in the last 10 years. Caseload has increased 30% in that time.
7% of patients are from Iraq/Afghanistan wars. 3% of the expenditures are for these patients. $4800 annual cost for them and $8800 for the other patients.
The VA is typical of every government program. Intent and result are nowhere near the same. Originally the VA hospitals were for war veterans. So now they all get to go?
Lots of people were promised things by their employer. Things happen and promises have to change.
My opinion is they should close the VA hospitals. Service connected illness and injuries should be treated by the hospital of your choice. Non service connected should be your insurance or Medicaid. We can no longer keep the serve 3 years and get benefits for life idea.
As I heard this weekend. There is a GI bill but we don't have Veteran Universities. Why should we have hospitals?
I wonder, if a person is eligible for VA coverage, that it becomes primary over Medicare? I am on Medicare, and for a free Medicare Advantage plan, I see all my same doctors and specialists and pay very little for prescriptions. If I had other coverage through an employer, I believe the private coverage would be Primary.
There would be no reason for a person to put up with the VA mess, unless they are forced to go there first. The new proposal, that a Veteran would have a card allowing him to get treated anywhere, should be implemented.
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