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Look at these two pics....top, of course, Tiananmen Square back in '89, and the bottom Hong Kong last week.....and wonder if democracy is raising its beautiful head again in China...
Sorry, China, but you cannot "peppergas" or "arrest" democracy away......it is indeed back, with a vengeance, my friend.....
BTW, do it for this famous brave soul(the tank guy)......he was executed shortly after, but his spirit lives!
God bless and long live the spirit of the "Tank Guy"....
Some of you may not have seen video of mainland china teargassing the democracy protesters....watch this....
Hong Kong should have never been handed over to Chinese control in the first place.
Of course it should have. The New Territories lease expired in 1997. At that point, the New Territories would have reverted to Chinese rule whereas Hong Kong Island and Kowloon Peninsula would have stayed British. At that point China probably would have simply invaded and there would have been nothing the UK could have done about it. Margaret Thatcher realized her negotiating position was extremely weak and wisely ceded the whole of Hong Kong.
Please remember that Hong Kong did not have Democracy under British rule either.
That said, I don't see a 1989 style revolution ever occurring in China. It is a nation that will slowly creep toward democracy through reforms.
Hong Kong should have never been handed over to Chinese control in the first place.
Yeah, the world dance at your command, oh mighty one!
The 89 event in Beijing indeed was a tragic event. But China has since evolved and grew beyond anyone's expectations. Now it is the 2nd largest economy in the world, even as it acquires many many growing pains. All of that growing without "democracy" no less, imagine that.
China needs to grow and develop before it democratize. Otherwise, it will be just another India.
Penny, Woxyroxme is giving his opinion just like you and everyone else does on this forum. If only the world did dance at my command, oh my would I shake things up.
Evolved? If that means their economy has grown due largely to them shipping mountains of crap to stores in the USA, then yes they have grown. On the humanitarian scale, I don't think they have evolved much. And the way they treat animals is disgusting. Any pet lover would be sad and angry. I'm sorry we ever established trade relations with them. They are in Africa largely for their own benefit. The trading is mainly a one way street and any good they do is to soften their negative image. South Africa denied the Dalai Lama's visit again, they said something to the effect it would harm relations with China. So much for SA thinking for themselves. They don't want another incident like Tiananmen Square, bad for public relations, but they won't be pushed too far, you can bet on that. And you can also bet democracy isn't coming anytime soon.
"Tiananmen Square lives - Are the current Hong Kong protests 1989 all over again?"
They are not the same, not even close.
Start looking around to see what is happening. Where do you think all the support materials are coming from in HK? This isn't some self funded protest.
These "students" are destroying the very economy from which they reap their benefits. They are surely alienating themselves from anyone who works in HK, anyone who sees progress not in some instant gratification scheme because it shows well in the media.
What is happening is easy to see. The government didn't react as the protestors wanted. They wanted tanks in the streets, chaos and a military stampede. It didn't happen and now they are stuck. They want to show the world that this was another "Tiananmen" and some people fell for it as evidenced by the OP and pictures.
Instead, the government simply watched because at some point, the people who actually work to feed their families, contribute to the economy and have a real stake, not just in the future but the here and now will get fed up and demand action. These "students" over estimated themselves and underestimated the government and most important, thought of themselves as speaking for an entire population when they in fact do not.
China isn't some small regional place where a coup is going to take place. It is a country with billions of people and it isn't simply going to change everything in a timeframe students want. Anyone who knows anything about history knows that especially in China, progress isn't something that happens quickly.
China isn't perfect, far from it but aside from street protests, what are the students offering as anything but a slow destruction of the very economy that feeds, clothes and educates them? They offer nothing and the time is approaching when those who pay the bills in HK say enough is enough. There won't be a Tiananmen Square episode although it should be easily observed that is what the students want.
No, they will sit in the streets, slowing stoking the fire of their own populace who will eventually see them as a far greater threat to freedom and prosperity than any government in Bejing.
Can anyone simply walk down the streets in central HK? Not really. Can people avail themselves of the opportunities keep their businesses open and earn money? Not really. These students thought they were making a statement, the only thing they accomplished is to polarize themselves.
The government doesn't need to do anything about this, the people of HK will do it. It is just a matter of time.
Penny, Woxyroxme is giving his opinion just like you and everyone else does on this forum. If only the world did dance at my command, oh my would I shake things up.
Evolved? If that means their economy has grown due largely to them shipping mountains of crap to stores in the USA, then yes they have grown. On the humanitarian scale, I don't think they have evolved much. And the way they treat animals is disgusting. Any pet lover would be sad and angry. I'm sorry we ever established trade relations with them. They are in Africa largely for their own benefit. The trading is mainly a one way street and any good they do is to soften their negative image. South Africa denied the Dalai Lama's visit again, they said something to the effect it would harm relations with China. So much for SA thinking for themselves. They don't want another incident like Tiananmen Square, bad for public relations, but they won't be pushed too far, you can bet on that. And you can also bet democracy isn't coming anytime soon.
Agree completely on the way the Chinese treat animals, and especially pets like cats and dogs. I love dogs (have two) and animals in general. But I am not a vegetarian. Have you seen our agro-businesses and the way they treat the chicken and the pigs and cattle that we eat? For every awful video about Chinese cruelty, we can easily find the same number of videos of grotesque butchering and sadistic killing of animals in the butcher plants of the US. Unless you are a vegetarian, or better yet, vegan, you and I both know that humanity as a whole has a long long way to go. Before you distinguish between a dog and a pig, might I add that pigs are cognitively smarter (more intelligent) than dogs and cats, and the Hindus are repulsed by the eating of cows because they are sacred. Yet we love our steaks. The point is, an animal is an animal despite our cultural pet-peeve. So cruelty to a pig is the same as cruelty to a dog.
As for the crap that the Chinese dump on us...well, capitalism is all about supply and demand. When there is no demand, there will be no supply. You do the math here. Establish trade relations? If the US does not trade with them, the rest of the world will. As for Tibet, there's not much we can do since China owns Tibet. China isn't really ready for democracy; there are still too many uneducated and half educated people in China. You just proclaimed the Chinese as "cruel" and "unevolved"...so how can they possibly handle the heavy responsibility of "democracy"? In fact, it would be scary for the Chinese to have democracy...
Hong Kong should have never been handed over to Chinese control in the first place.
Since Hong Kong was only leased to the British, it belongs to China all the time. So your statement is simply unrealistic.
As for HK protests being 1989 all over again, I don't think so as I doubt the Chinese Government will dare bring tanks to stop the protests with the whole world watching on social media.
I don't think it was a joke or lark. And people of all ages protested as well.
Keep in mind, the students will be running HK in the future. They have more invested than anyone in this, namely, their future, for what its' worth.
Can you imagine this happening in mainland China again? Even more so, imagine the response at this time? If you cannot imagine this being allowed on the mainland, than you can understand the totalitarian, top-down rule in China.
Recently, a college professor was jailed for life for just having contrarian views...look..
I would be afraid to protest myself, as an american, in China proper, per wearing a shirt or a sign knocking the regime.
I would bet I would be wisked quite quickly into detention somewhere. There is always the possibility, when one travels to China, that you could falsely be accused of being a spy and sent to prison as well.....
Fact is, and let's be honest, who the hell would even WANT to travel to China in the first place? I cannot think of one appealing place....not to mention the pollution.
Word is, just breathing the air there is the equiv of smoking two packs of cigarette...
They can have it.....
While Wal-mart has low prices, this is the TRUE price for progress..look.....
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