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They love putting words in your mouth to twist what you say to either suit their argument or make you sound bad. It's happened to me here twice already.
Putting words in people's mouths and deflecting to that is easier than admitting they're wrong and quite reckless in their beliefs, which have been disproven time and time again.
Isn't that the truth! The other thing they love to do, I have found, is play "divide and conquer". They love to play up minor differences in the posts of pro-vaxers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
Not sure what Jenny McCarthy has to do with my post/nor do I know much about her nor do I care who she is. Back to the topic at hand....As for the 1 in a million adverse reaction stat you quoted, there are more potential reactions with far less than a 1 in a million chance of happening that are in other categories that aren't very pleasant/can be dangerous.
Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)"
Since you sidestepped the intent of my previous post and went into your talking points, let's play reality. Though I think I know what your answer is to save face on your views that you've stated in 5 different ways in what seems like a few hundred posts. Let's say you have a child who was one of the 1 out of 30k who got a the temporary low platelet count and had some bleeding disorder, was hospitalized for it, etc. This can be a serious condition. Would you be willing to give your child, without question, another vaccine down the line with the same risk profile with no questions/concerns? Again, I'm sure your answer will be yes, "gov tell me what to do and I'll do it because the world has no gray in it and my belief should spread to everyone as a result", but I figure I'll ask anyways.
Let's talk about the bold.
"On the one hand, we have a vaccine which carries a risk of acute thrombocytopenic purpura, which typically resolves within 6 months or less, in about 2-4 for every 100,000 doses administered. By contrast, each separate disease (measles, mumps and rubella) individually carry a higher risk of ATP, with similar outcomes as the vaccine. As an example, rubella occurs around 10 times more often following natural infection (~33 per 100,000 cases) than the rate from the vaccine." Harpocrates Speaks: Acute Thrombocytopenic Purpura, the MMR and Natural Infection
Not only this country. The World. They may have declared Measles "eradicated" in the US, but it wasn't in the rest world. One person getting on a plane overseas can bring it back here.
Small pox vaccination and booster was required for international travel until the 70s. Maybe you need to petition Congress to do the same for Measles for international travelers?
"Eradicated" means it is not endemic to this country. All cases have been imported since 2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Well made point. A person has just as much chance of being paralyzed from polio as does that person having an adverse reaction from the vaccine.
A small minority will experience adverse reactions from vaccines.
A small minority will experience paralysis from polio.
LOL! Here is the shockingly high, seriously adverse reaction from the IPV, the current vaccine in use in the US:
"Some people who get IPV get a sore spot where the shot was given. IPV has not been known to cause serious problems, and most people don’t have any problems at all with it." http://www.immunize.org/vis/polio_ipv.pdf
OMG, a "sore spot"! Certainly, that is as serious as paralysis!
What if the child was coughing in the waiting room leaving droplets on the furniture and then went back to see the doctor and the baby's mother came in with the baby, sat in the same chair that the coughing child had been in and put her hand on the contaminated armrest and then went to wipe something off the baby's face? Could the baby have caught it that way? Or is the only scenario that the coughing child was sitting within three feet of the baby, facing the baby while coughing?
I have been in very small/cramped waiting rooms with no separate "sick" and "well" areas at my old pediatrician's' office. I though how unfortunate the set up was every time we visited. It was very poorly thought out.
What if, what if, what if! You keep trying to deflect the blame (I'm not going to pretty it up and call it 'responsibility' away from the unvaxed sick child and his/her parents. That is what the investigation determined.
The anti-vaxers have made this disease investigation into a farce. First, it was "how do 'they' know it was this child" and "how do they know the child was unvaccinated"? Well, because that's what epidemiologists do-they investigate disease! They trace contacts, they find out the vaccination status! You can "what if" till the cows come home, but that was the determination of the epidemiologists, no matter how much doubt the anti-vaxers try to raise.
What if, what if, what if! You keep trying to deflect the blame (I'm not going to pretty it up and call it 'responsibility' away from the unvaxed sick child and his/her parents. That is what the investigation determined.
The anti-vaxers have made this disease investigation into a farce. First, it was "how do 'they' know it was this child" and "how do they know the child was unvaccinated"? Well, because that's what epidemiologists do-they investigate disease! They trace contacts, they find out the vaccination status! You can "what if" till the cows come home, but that was the determination of the epidemiologists, no matter how much doubt the anti-vaxers try to raise.
Well in this instance you were acting like the only way for the baby to get it was due to a selfish moronic parent allowing their child to cough all over the infant and in other cases you talk about how highly contagious pertussis is. You can't have it both ways. It is true that pertussis is highly contagious and it's hyperbole to insist that the child must have coughed all over the baby. We know nothing about the details. Just a story that a random poster on CD gave to us.
"The paralysis tended to be on only one side of the body, like children disabled by polio, the study says."
Not caused by the polio virus. Nice try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Well in this instance you were acting like the only way for the baby to get it was due to a selfish moronic parent allowing their child to cough all over the infant and in other cases you talk about how highly contagious pertussis is. You can't have it both ways. It is true that pertussis is highly contagious and it's hyperbole to insist that the child must have coughed all over the baby.
Basically, yes. That's how you get pertussis. You get coughed on. I don't see how that negates it being very contagious. Get coughed on by someone in the throes of the disease, especially an unvaccinated child and you have a high probability of getting the disease. And it is moronic to let a child with a cough, undiagnosed or otherwise, child vaccinated or otherwise, get close to a baby.
Fear of the vaccine. "A "sore spot" where a shot was given is equivalent to paralysis, life in an iron lung, and even death from polio. Vaccines cause autism. We used to think it was the Thimerosal in MMR, but then we found out that 1) there's no thimerosal in MMR and never was, and 2) thimerosal was removed from all childhood vaccines 14 years ago yet the incidence of autism is increasing, but we KNOW it's the vaccine."
Uncertainty-"How do they know the baby got it from the child at the doctor's office? How do they know the child was unvaccinated? Could the child have coughed on the chair the parent sat in?"
Doubt-""I predict" this new law won't change anything!"
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-09-2015 at 07:13 PM..
Same symptoms as polio and polio is an enterovirus. Causes paralysis... Not called polio but it's cousin and the rate of paralysis is the same. Semantics.
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Back to the topic at hand....As for the 1 in a million adverse reaction stat you quoted, there are more potential reactions with far less than a 1 in a million chance of happening that are in other categories that aren't very pleasant/can be dangerous.
. Let's say you have a child who was one of the 1 out of 30k who got a the temporary low platelet count and had some bleeding disorder, was hospitalized for it, etc. This can be a serious condition. Would you be willing to give your child, without question, another vaccine down the line with the same risk profile with no questions/concerns? Again, I'm sure your answer will be yes, "gov tell me what to do and I'll do it because the world has no gray in it and my belief should spread to everyone as a result", but I figure I'll ask anyways.
