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bullets are known to deflect pretty good traveling through a windshield, but pretty bad example when deflection of a bullet by 10 degress can be the difference of a couple inches or feet when talking about how far the target is behind the glass.
Whats silly is that you think someone is free to open fire on something with out a clean line of sight.. I guess the saying know your target and beyond is of no consequence to you. Have you ever tried to actually look through laminated glass that has shattered?
Yep I have. And yes, I'm aware of knowing what's downrange when firing. I'm also aware of what the people in the complex said they were all doing when the shooting started which was certainly not standing behind the shooter.
Another thing, according to reports the shooter was at his car which would've provided a great backstop for any errant rounds maybe?
I feel it's easy to sit here and pontificate on the situation but we all must remember none of us were there nor have we been there at the scene recently.
Or am I wrong and y'all were there?
Yep I have. And yes, I'm aware of knowing what's downrange when firing. I'm also aware of what the people in the complex said they were all doing when the shooting started which was certainly not standing behind the shooter.
Another thing, according to reports the shooter was at his car which would've provided a great backstop for any errant rounds maybe?
I feel it's easy to sit here and pontificate on the situation but we all must remember none of us were there nor have we been there at the scene recently.
Or am I wrong and y'all were there?
So if you have physically had the chance to attempt looking through fractured safety glass you would know that at best what you would be able to see a blurry outline of maybe the vehicle. Beyond that you would have absolutely no idea what was out there. And bullets will tear through a vehicles thin sheet metal plastic door panels and glass windows.
Im all for being armed... but I also see the situation for what it was. Its much more probable that the servicemen in the adjacent buildings would come out to their aid, rather then thinking these guys could have just opened fire back.
Such a sad incident. I feel for the families, if it's in a war zone you prepare for your spouses death but here at work you don't dream of this happening. Even with the warnings we are a bit unprepared. I guarantee they will be armed from now on.
So if you have physically had the chance to attempt looking through fractured safety glass you would know that at best what you would be able to see a blurry outline of maybe the vehicle. Beyond that you would have absolutely no idea what was out there. And bullets will tear through a vehicles thin sheet metal plastic door panels and glass windows.
Im all for being armed... but I also see the situation for what it was. Its much more probable that the servicemen in the adjacent buildings would come out to their aid, rather then thinking these guys could have just opened fire back.
What is more likely to change for recruiting offices (if anything does) is that they'll contract private security in the long run. They may post military police in the short run. But there are actually some very significant public policy and logistical issues to arming ordinary (non police) soldiers on the streets of the USA.
But there are actually some very significant public policy and logistical issues to arming ordinary (non police) soldiers on the streets of the USA.
So what do we do? The next attack won’t be a drive by. Someone walks in and executes them point blank. What do we do if you don’t like arming them?
Practically any glass (especially hardened glass, such as that wall--notice bullet holes rather than shattered glass) will re-direct a pistol or M-14 round from point of aim, so firing through the glass wall would have assured bullets zipping randomly into the mall parking lot where civilians would be expected to be by-standing. There is no "civilian environment ROE" that would have permitted returning fire in a situation that it would have been apparent accurate aiming was impossible.
Now you are entering blow hard territory,
So in your world you would rather have these sitting ducks type situations for recruiters? On top of that, most people are inside the malls of the World, not milling around in the parking lots. It appears you value civilian lives more than our military?
It also appears it was fmj, basic .223/5.56 ammo used (any civilian gas operated AR type semi-auto rifle) and it was straight enough to hit targets on the inside. I'm pretty sure those ballistics would have worked equally well either direction from the same weapon. But hey, if your crystal ball says different, run with it.
I can't wait to see these recruiters armed to the teeth.
It appears you value civilian lives more than our military?
Oh, hell yes! That's the reason we're in the military! A soldier killing a US civilian while saving his own hide would be a total disaster.
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It also appears it was fmj, basic .223/5.56 ammo used (any civilian gas operated AR type semi-auto rifle) and it was straight enough to hit targets on the inside.
Except that it didn't. Nobody got killed at the recruiting office, despite the high number of rounds fired and the apparent clear field of fire (except for that glass).
Recruiters don't just sit in their office, they spend a lot of time out meeting kids, visiting schools, visiting homes, getting out and about. They're not going to be doing that "armed to the teeth."
Looking at the latest reports, it appears that the reserve center did not have armed guards at the gate. That surprises me, in that the active duty bases stepped up their gate security significantly at the start of the Iraq War and even the reserve units I've been to since then have had armed guards at their gates. It was a severe failure of judgment on the part of this commanding officer not to have guards at the reserve center.
If you are trapped in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean, of what good are the billions of gallons of fresh drinking water available in North America?
Your statement that we have X number of guns but "it's still not enough" and then using your nuclear weapons statement is incredibly childish. Yes, we have guns. But what good are said guns if human beings are prohibited from carrying them?
Actually, the recent Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage would seem to open up concealed or open carry rights to citizens in all 50 states, without limit.
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