Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
@Orlandochuck1 - Absolutely. Inner city "ghettos" are where most of the crime happens. As I have extensively detailed though, guns flow into the ghettos from states with lax gun laws. I agree the problem needs to be addressed in the ghetto, but there is also room to go after the flow of guns into those areas as well.
@zonest - If there were actually a million uses of a gun in self defense annually in the United States, it would mean that statistically all of us would know of at least several people who have used a gun in this manner and/or it was a very common occurrence for some people. Yet, I don't anyone and either do most people. You are actually the first person I have ever heard say that they have used their gun for self-defense "several times". Those statistics were taken by manipulated surveys where the question was usually "do you think you have personally deterred crime by having a gun". When people answered "yes" as most would certainly do, it was counted in those self-defense statistics. I can share the articles and studies about that topic if you want. I'm NOT saying it DOESN'T happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as common as a "million" times a year, not anywhere close.
@seain dublin - I do pay attention to history, but I refuse to stand paralyzed because of a slippery slope argument. The belief that something might possibly happen in the future does not mean we do nothing about our present. Nothing I have proposed is anywhere near extreme.
As for the California law, I believe that the family needs to petition a judge and that there needs to be some other qualifiers such as an existing domestic violence restraining order. It's not as simple as picking up the phone and calling. I am not 100% sure I support it unless there are very strict regulations and controls. I do support the California provision where they actually track people who legally purchased firearms but then committed a felony crime later that would disqualify them from owning the gun. They then go and ask the individuals to surrender the firearm.
@Ummagumma - Covered earlier in the thread. It was a gross overreach by the New Orleans PD during an extremely stressful and trying time and roundly condemned by virtually everyone. There have been laws passed in many states since clarifying that this is not allowed as well as additional federal laws. There has never been another case like it, as far as I know, even during Superstorm Sandy in "anti-gun" NJ and NY, nothing like that occurred. The guns were returned to those who claimed them. Also, I am not aware of a single person who was subjected to this illegal siezure that suffered any ill fate from roving gangs of thugs.
Well you're wrong. I live in CA, you don't. It is now as simple as picking up the phone and calling the police and saying you have a family member who you think is unstable and the gun will be taken from the legal gun owner.
The only part you got right is the court part. The gun owner than has to go in front of a judge to see if they get the gun back. I already said this has NOTHING to do with people with records or a history of mental illness.
So anyone who has a grudge against a family member can make a call. This is not good.
And don't say it can only happen in CA. As the old saying goes "As CA goes, so goes the nation".
Seat belt laws, no smoking in restaurants(which are good things) all started here.
This one however is dangerous and disturbing. And it wasn't voted on, it just became law.
Pardon me if I see any attempt by the government to create a centralized database as making it easier for another New Orleans like confiscation to occur. Even if it's not the initial or stated intent. The precedent is horrific and very recent.
I'm not going to argue slippery slope. What could possibly happen in a dystopian future shouldn't distract us from the very real conversation about what is happening now and how we can do better.
With that said, I understand we will most likely never agree on what would be "reasonable" action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin
Well you're wrong. I live in CA, you don't. It is now as simple as picking up the phone and calling the police and saying you have a family member who you think is unstable and the gun will be taken from the legal gun owner.
The only part you got right is the court part. The gun owner than has to go in front of a judge to see if they get the gun back. I already said this has NOTHING to do with people with records or a history of mental illness.
So anyone who has a grudge against a family member can make a call. This is not good.
And don't say it can only happen in CA. As the old saying goes "As CA goes, so goes the nation".
Seat belt laws, no smoking in restaurants(which are good things) all started here.
This one however is dangerous and disturbing. And it wasn't voted on, it just became law.
Per the text, it requires a judges order for both the one year restraining order and the 21-day order. There is also a provision that people who make false statements related to the issuance of these orders can be charged with a crime.
Sorry my reply with quote is not working in this thread...
@Orlandochuck1 - West Virginia (the second leading supplier of guns used to commit crimes in the United States) does not require background checks at gun shows and allows unlimited purchases. Sellers at gun shows in West Virginia are able to sell an unlimited quantity of guns, on the spot, no questions asked. Report after report have traced the guns used to commit crimes in the ghettos of other states as coming from states like West Virginia. Moving past that, the next largest source is the ease with which these states allow people to make 'straw purchases' again given the lack of waiting periods and no quantity limits. Finally, we have the lack of laws requiring owners to report lost or stolen guns.
I am in the business. Background checks from gun dealers is a FEDERAL law. Nobody gets around it. At gun shows, you get background checked by all dealers. It is only when private transactions occur outside of gun shows by individuals, that these background checks are not required. This can take place anywhere, any time, not just outside of the gun show venue. This takes place everyday all over the country. No state requires background checks between private individuals.
No state "allows straw purchases". Every gun store in this country requires you to fill out a 4473 form to make a purchase. On this form you must swear that you intent to purchase this gun for yourself. Anyone without a criminal background, or has been adjudicated mentally ill, can purchase a firearm. If they choose to purposely purchase for the intent of reselling, then they are breaking the law. This does not vary from state to state, again, this is FEDERAL law. Gun stores are not responsible for those that leave their store and break the law.
Reporting of stolen or lost guns will in no way prevent one gun crime. The ghetto rats committing gun crime are already breaking the law by illegally possessing a gun. Doesn't make a difference where it came from, they are already committing an illegal act.
The idea of background checks is nonsense. Background checks are used primarily to control the purchase of guns by law abiding citizens. Criminals by and large do not walk into gun shops to buy guns.
In California for example, the capability to perform an instant check like many other states is possible, it isn't done. Supposedly, the idea is to prevent crimes where the person wants to kill someone right away.
If someone wants to kill someone immediately and they don't have a gun, they don't find a gun store (which in California is not everywhere and actually far and few between) and then go kill someone after buying a gun that they had to get cleared to buy with a background check and for which there is a record of the sale.
The people that were denied for whatever reason can range from simple things like an expired driver license to an old address on the license. In reality, very few people trying to buy a gun from a gun store are criminals and caught that way.
Background checks aren't used to make things safer, it is used to control people.
No state requires background checks between private individuals.
as a dealer, you might want to check the current laws in CO and WA.
In CO, the law was written to specifically eliminate all transfers without a background check. This extends even to a "loan" of a firearm such as might happen between friends for a hunting trip in excess of 72 hours possession to the borrower.
If Obama had his way, very few private citizens would own guns. His voting record as a state senator and US senator proves this. The closest he ever came to a pro gun vote was voting to allow police officers to carry their guns when off duty. Real supportive of the right to bear arms.
If Obama had his way, very few private citizens would own guns. His voting record as a state senator and US senator proves this. The closest he ever came to a pro gun vote was voting to allow police officers to carry their guns when off duty. Real supportive of the right to bear arms.
Allowing police officers carrying their guns when off duty was on his hand and hands of all the present liberal top of the government because it's the enforcement of the police state. The more cops enforce the law, the kinder politicians who rule look.
Allowing police officers carrying their guns when off duty was on his hand and hands of all the present liberal top of the government because it's the enforcement of the police state. The more cops enforce the law, the kinder politicians who rule look.
If you don't like guns hang a sign on your door " this is a gun free zone" and put it on a pin your wear every day, that has the same message for all to see.
Please.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
