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Yes. Just yes. More women in uniform would be better for all. It is definitely good to have a commanding male presence in many police situations but boosting the number of women recruits would be good.
Yes. Just yes. More women in uniform would be better for all. It is definitely good to have a commanding male presence in many police situations but boosting the number of women recruits would be good.
You clearly have no clue what the job entails to make such a comment.
Women belong in most professions, and can out perform men is certain professions. I say that not to be PC, as I abhor those who are. Rather it is just a fact.
So too is it factual that women are only hired as cops and firefighters because the physical standards were reduced or in some cases thrown out all together, to allow women to be hired. In most cases it was because liberal judges thought it was discriminatory to have high standards if it prevents certain people from being able to get hired. Liberal decisions will result in unintended results. Heck in an effort to hire women, certain procedures and equipment were scrapped because the women did not have the physical capabilities to pass the exams.
Look up the Pompier Ladder, which is rarely used anymore as but one small example.
Countless people have been harmed as a result of affirmative action, but non PC stories like those are rarely done to expose it. Only the people familiar with the responsibility of hiring and changing the standards know what has occurred. Sure fellow officers and firefighters are aware, but they are limited in their ability to speak out, for fear of endangering their careers.
NEWS FLASH - We all may wish to be astronauts, but you do not see standards being lowered so just anyone can get that job.
Yet we allow people who are either physically or mentally not fit for a profession to be hired just because of social engineering. If it were in a field like a pipefitter, I would care so much. However cops, and firefighters/paramedics are called upon to protect and save lives. So those professions should not have people incapable of performing their duties.
The average sports fan would freak out if affirmative action were used to determine how their favorite teams were composed of.
Yet these same fools have no problem with someone that might be needed to save their family some day being hired for a job they cannot handle.
So too is it factual that women are only hired as cops and firefighters because the physical standards were reduced or in some cases thrown out all together, to allow women to be hired. In most cases it was because liberal judges thought it was discriminatory to have high standards if it prevents certain people from being able to get hired. Liberal decisions will result in unintended results. Heck in an effort to hire women, certain procedures and equipment were scrapped because the women did not have the physical capabilities to pass the exams. Look up the Pompier Ladder, which is rarely used anymore as but one small example.
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You are either misinformed, or you are making this up. There have been NO lowering of standards in public safety testing due to gender, in fact they have gotten tougher in the past 20 or 30 years. Do you even know what the test process is like for a Police Officer or Firefighter is like? It's tough enough that plenty of males and females fail it. Pompier ladder..oh please, they don't test on those because no one uses them anymore.
I've often held the belief that policemen/the police force attracts individuals who are more prone to violence,or at the very least, are very willing to engage violent behavior.
Would hiring more female police officers change this?
I got my EMT license when I was in my early twenties and worked for a volunteer first aid and rescue squad that covered a lot of sporting events and such. I even had an ambulance driver's license which was separate from the EMT license.
I didn't continue with it as a career for two reasons. 1. It didn't pay enough. And 2. At a buck o five soaking wet, I could not haul a three hundred pound gunshot victim down a flight of stairs. So I quit.
But I was a damned good medic, and I have saved at least one life that I know of.
I know women who can haul toe to toe with a guy. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean they can't.
You are either misinformed, or you are making this up. There have been NO lowering of standards in public safety testing due to gender, in fact they have gotten tougher in the past 20 or 30 years. Do you even know what the test process is like for a Police Officer or Firefighter is like? It's tough enough that plenty of males and females fail it. Pompier ladder..oh please, they don't test on those because no one uses them anymore.
Now you have really stepped in it. Aside from my own personal experiences, plenty of my family members and friends are in LE & EMS.
I know full well how standards have changed, and apparently you do not have a clue.
Let's start with how there use to be a minimum height & weight requirement to even apply.
Let's add to that things like consent decrees (via wonderful programs like affirmative action) mandated certain numbers of minorities and women be hired.
This was not a choice, but a mandate. So as you can imagine, if women didn't have the strength to do a charged hose pull, that requirement was either scrapped or reduced in distance to get a few on. Things like chopping down a door with an axe within a certain period of time was eliminated. Doing a pull start on portable equipment & generators was eliminated until the more expensive push button electric start equipment was purchased. Those are but some of the requirements that occurred.
[I only mentioned the Pompier ladder as one example. Yet the irony is you said no one uses them anymore. Ever wonder why that is?
Sure there is modern equipment with hydraulic ladders on H&L's. But in a multiple building fire with multiple victims up above the 2nd story, the Pompiers can still be used to effect quicker access and rescues, instead of waiting for more trucks to arrive.
However the women did not have the upper body strength to use them. Hence the reason they are hardly ever used by city departments anymore. Still if you were in a burning building with exists cut off, I'd bet dollars to donuts you'd hope a fireman could use one to save you, vs. dying from smoke inhalation or burning to death]
If candidates could not swim, they were automatically failed. However when a disproportionate of blacks were being eliminated, that rule was changed, ONLY for them. Another words, if a white candidate couldn't swim, it was adios, but the black candidate was allowed to continue with the understanding they could have up to 1 year to learn how to swim after they were hired. By the way, those swimming lessons were to be paid for by the taxpayers, not the individual. As you might imagine that rule was not enforced because you couldn't fire a quota hire, because you would then need to make up that number with another one of the same race. You would also open yourself up to claims and lawsuits for discrimination.
If men failed the range qualification, they were toast, but not so for the women. In one instance the range master called his commander and said there was a female candidate he couldn't pass because her hands were so small, she could not hold even a Lady S&M and still have her finger reach the trigger to pull it.
His commander said I don't care what you have to do, but we need a certain number of women by X date, so pass her any way you can. When the RM said she couldn't fire the gun, so how can he pass her? The commander said have her hold the grip with one hand and pull the trigger with the other hands finger.
Needless to say, there is a woman out on the streets today who if she needs to use her weapon to save citizens, her partner, or herself, cannot hit the broad side of a barn because she cannot properly fire her sidearm.
There are cases where some departments were so desperate to hire a particular minority to meet their quota numbers, they ignored a applicants past criminal records, and still hired them.
That is correct, A Clockwork Orange went from a book/movie to real life with the former criminals now wearing the uniform and badge.
As you might expect, that social experiment didn't turn out very well, but at least the quotas were met for a few years in the mean time.
I could go on and on with examples of how affirmative action has allowed all sorts of inferior people to get jobs they wouldn't have been able to get if it were not for lowering the standards. Also remember, that although some special considerations were given to allow women and minorities to get on, that eventually opened the door for inferior white men to also get hired.
Hence the reason you see a bunch of cops and firefighters running around who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. You also have some that are dumb as dirt, with no common sense whatsoever. Yet we expect them to potentially make life and death decisions.
So despite what people are brainwashed into thinking by liberal Hollywood movies and TV shows, we have a bunch of people running around out there that have no business in uniform. That doesn't even count the ones who can get by, but their abilities and performance meet only the bare minimum standards.
But keeping on deluding yourself into thinking standards are more stringent than they use to be.
I got my EMT license when I was in my early twenties and worked for a volunteer first aid and rescue squad that covered a lot of sporting events and such. I even had an ambulance driver's license which was separate from the EMT license.
I didn't continue with it as a career for two reasons. 1. It didn't pay enough. And 2. At a buck o five soaking wet, I could not haul a three hundred pound gunshot victim down a flight of stairs. So I quit.
But I was a damned good medic, and I have saved at least one life that I know of.
I know women who can haul toe to toe with a guy. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean they can't.
Well I commend you for admitting you had physical limitations for that particular job. Yet you were still hired for it, so that should also tell everyone something.
You are also correct that EMS does not pay very well unless you get hired by a large city/municipality. Sometimes small affluent cities have departments (both police and fire) that pay very well, with great benefits.
As to being a good EMT, I don't doubt you have the knowledge on a BLS level to save lives. Heck women perform ALS functions all the time as nurses, MD's, etc. because they have just as much mental capability as men do. In certain fields they excel better than men.
However, even as a straight up EMT, you could have endangered a patient having nothing to do with doing a firemen's carry with a heavy patient.
If you were on a two man crew and needed to do effective CPR (without a thumper) on the scene, load the patient and continue to the ER, you likely would not have been able to do your job as effectively as a stronger man. As a result the patient suffers.
I think the only thing we disagree on here is your last comment about women going toe to toe with men.
Sure if you want to compare a rare woman in great shape with special capabilities, vs. an average slug of a man, that can be the case. But by and large, most women are not a match for a man in strength, height, weight and leverage.
Men and women are just different physiologically, and having been an EMT you must know that on an educational level.
Let's start with how there use to be a minimum height & weight requirement to even apply. Let's add to that things like consent decrees (via wonderful programs like affirmative action) mandated certain numbers of minorities and women be hired.
There have been challenges to testing standards for at least the last 30 years because you can't test for things that aren't relevant to doing the job. For decades standards were designed to keep women and minorities out of the competition, some of the successful lawsuits were filed by Asian males who objected to requirements that had nothing to do with your ability to do the job but were designed to keep the jobs for nice tall white boys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
[I only mentioned the Pompier ladder as one example. Yet the irony is you said no one uses them anymore. Ever wonder why that is?
There is no pompier ladder that can meet the NFPA annual testing requirements. If there was such a ladder, it would probably be too heavy to use as a scaling ladder. Since the 1960's, most high-rise new construction is Type II with glass curtain walls. The glass prevents pompier ladders from being used in those structures - and no one makes them anymore DUH. [/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
If candidates could not swim, they were automatically failed. However when a disproportionate of blacks were being eliminated, that rule was changed, ONLY for them.
You are partially correct, but mostly wrong. A disproportionate number of blacks were eliminated, but the requirement was changed of EVERYONE and the reason was that swimming was not skill necessary to doing to the job, they were hiring firefighters not lifeguards. There are NO public agencies in the US that have different tests depending upon ethnicity or gender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
If men failed the range qualification, they were toast, but not so for the women. In one instance the range master called his commander and said there was a female candidate he couldn't pass because her hands were so small
That sir is a fantasy of unparalleled proportions. There are never different standards in range qualification and here is why. Your qualification records are part of your permanent record, if you are involved in a shooting incident those records become relevant. A supervisor would have to be insane to jeopardize his/her job by falsifying records- the only time I have heard of that in a very long time was the case where the old pretend cop who shot the guy with what he thought was a taser had apparently been able to coerce personnel into falsifying training documents and I bet it never happens there again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
There are cases where some departments were so desperate to hire a particular minority to meet their quota numbers, they ignored a applicants past criminal records, and still hired them.
Oh please, NO Public agency would ignore criminal records, heads would roll if that employee was involved in a criminal incident while employed, you can't just make criminal records go away- whatever are you thinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
men and minorities to get on, that eventually opened the door for inferior white men to also get hired. Hence the reason you see a bunch of cops and firefighters running around who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. You also have some that are dumb as dirt, with no common sense whatsoever. Yet we expect them to potentially make life and death decisions.
That's really all you had to say. You don't want anyone but white guys getting these jobs. tsk tsk too bad for you it's not still 1950...cry me a river.
I would suspect they would increase. Female police officers are not well equipped to deal with a physically combative person.
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