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While I can respect each side's view on this topic, my heart aches for all concerned. Your comments are similar to some I've read on line and reflective of the content of some posts in this thread, and they show a misunderstanding of Christianity and what being a Christian really is. She is not "Cherry Picking" her beliefs, she is being consistent with her beliefs. You stated she isn't showing love for her fellow man. One can love someone, yet not agree with them - just as we do with family members. As a parent, it can hurt to correct your child, but still you love them (not that she was doing this). I have not seen any quotes of her stating she doesn't love gay individuals who want a marriage license. I did see her on TV trying to respectfully explain to a gay couple why she couldn't issue them a license. They wouldn't allow her to speak, they were mean spirited, loud, and grandstanding for the cameras. If they truly wanted to celebrate their loving union, why not drive 20 minutes to another site that I understand was issuing licenses(?).
The reason that the couples do not drive 20 minutes is because they live in that county and pay taxes that pay her salary. Why should they have to? Why should they stand for being discriminated against by someone that decided that they are not good enough for the services that they pay for? Why should they have to go out of their way to soothe this elected officials feelings?
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Originally Posted by RaleighLass
Again, I feel for both sides. I know many loving gay couples who wouldn't dream of behaving in such a crass way by causing someone to go to jail for something like this. What sickens me is how this has turned into a witch hunt. The viciousness of verbal attacks against her is wrong. One can disagree and not resort to cruel personal attacks. If I were seeing this in the reverse, straight people attacking a gay person for their belief, I would be as verbal.
Like the people outside the clerks offices screaming pervert, and abomination to couples going in to get a license? Like the preachers in front of the court house calling for them to be discriminated against by the government?
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Originally Posted by RaleighLass
As for her past marriages: we know no details, so we can't say if her behavior was wrong or sinful - or contrary to Christian teachings. I'm no bible scholar, I am a Christian, and can tell you that when you ask forgiveness of your sins and intend to sin no more, then you are forgiven, washed clean of sin, as Jesus atoned for all of mankind's sins. Many use the term, "Washed by the blood (of Jesus)". If Mrs. Davis did this, and it appears she did when she became a Christian or was Saved", then her slate was wiped clean by God. When we become Christians, we don't expect to be perfect, but we are expected to strive to be the best we can be as human/spiritual beings. And we do our best to follow God's rules for us. Still, we stumble, and we sin, but if we are truly sorry, we ask for forgiveness and try harder from that point on.
We do know the details, though. She was married to husband 1, got pregnant with husband 3s children (twins) divorced husband 1 married husband 2 who adopted the children of husband 3, divorced husband 2 married husband 3, divorced husband 3, remarried husband 2.
But then she saw the light and none of her sins count, but she still feels holy than thou enough to use her beliefs to decide what others can do. As a government official she can not use her religious beliefs to get out of doing her job. She also can not use her religious beliefs to force others to follow her beliefs. Like ordering all of the deputy clerks to not issue marriage licenses because her personal beliefs say so.
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Originally Posted by RaleighLass
Christian or not, we must recognize that we are evolving beings, and deserve to be forgiven for our past mistakes. If folks are to continually bring up her marriages in order to question the validity of her current beliefs, then the accusers should also share with us what mistakes they've made in the past so that we can fully determine their motivations or if they are "worthy" of judging others. I suspect none of us would pass this test
The difference is that she is using her personal religious beliefs to refuse others their constitutional rights.
If others are doing the same I would expect that they shut up and either do their job, or resign. Just like I expect this clerk to do.
I would certainly HOPE so. However, what I have read and observed in 50+years of Supreme Court watching makes me doubt it at times.
But then, I subscribe to a rather simplistic view of the Constitution and those who wrote it. I believe those guys were highly educated (for their time), and tended to mean what they wrote and to write exactly what they meant. I also believe that those who can't figure out what their intentions were need only to read their ancillary writings to see the background of their eventual official writings. Lawyer or judge talk isn't required to know what "Congress shall pass no law.." or "shall not be infringed" actually means. It seems to me the First Amendment in particular is VERY clear, and needs no interpretation! I often wonder, what law did Congress pass regarding the establishment of religion? None, that I know of. Then, what "law" is the Supreme Court frequently ruling on the Constitutionality of, when they declare that this or that "religious symbol" is Unconstitutional? Could it be that it is a "law" CREATED by somebody, that exists only in their mind?
The Supreme court is supposed to rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by Congress and signed by the President.
In the absence of such a law, what are they ruling on?
Since there is no law, they must have created one so they could make a ruling.
THAT is unconstitutional!
I'm sure they are well aware of the Constitutional limits of their power.
From the rulings they make, it is obvious to me that they don't care!
There is no need to wonder. The ruling is well-documented. Google it and read it for yourself.
Your personal beliefs have no business interfering with your job duties.
If you can't issue those licenses then transfer and let someone else in there who will honor the law.
I really don't get what all the fuss is about. If she refuses to perform her basic job duties, fire her for insubordination and move on. All this alleged controversy, prison drama and pandering for the camera just reinforces the "witchhunt" motives of the more militant gay rights activists and does precious little to garner my support for them.
I really don't get what all the fuss is about. If she refuses to perform her basic job duties, fire her for insubordination and move on. All this alleged controversy, prison drama and pandering for the camera just reinforces the "witchhunt" motives of the more militant gay rights activists and does precious little to garner my support for them.
She is an elected official so she can't just be fired. The drama,controversy and pandering all came from her and her lawyer. Did you not read the story?
Where exactly are these militant gay rights activists?
I really don't get what all the fuss is about. If she refuses to perform her basic job duties, fire her for insubordination and move on. All this alleged controversy, prison drama and pandering for the camera just reinforces the "witchhunt" motives of the more militant gay rights activists and does precious little to garner my support for them.
You are aware that the people suing the county to have their legal rights acknowledged specifically asked that she not be jailed, right?
The reason that the couples do not drive 20 minutes is because they live in that county and pay taxes that pay her salary. Why should they have to? Why should they stand for being discriminated against by someone that decided that they are not good enough for the services that they pay for? Why should they have to go out of their way to soothe this elected officials feelings?
I get what you mean. However, she found herself in the position of being in a job where she was asked to go against her beliefs. I have not seen any quotes of her stating that gay couples are not good enough for the services of her office. If she adheres to the principles of Christianity, she should not judge anyone, nor place herself above others. My understanding is that she stopped issuing licenses to all to remove herself from the process. I imagine, like most of us, she needs her job and this is why she made this decision.
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Originally Posted by jjrose
Like the people outside the clerks offices screaming pervert, and abomination to couples going in to get a license? Like the preachers in front of the court house calling for them to be discriminated against by the government?
I find this behavior (screaming, attacking) disgusting. I do not accept it from anyone regardless of affinity, orientation, or belief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
We do know the details, though. She was married to husband 1, got pregnant with husband 3s children (twins) divorced husband 1 married husband 2 who adopted the children of husband 3, divorced husband 2 married husband 3, divorced husband 3, remarried husband 2.
But then she saw the light and none of her sins count, but she still feels holy than thou enough to use her beliefs to decide what others can do. As a government official she can not use her religious beliefs to get out of doing her job. She also can not use her religious beliefs to force others to follow her beliefs. Like ordering all of the deputy clerks to not issue marriage licenses because her personal beliefs say so.
My reply to this is to refer you back to my first post regarding not being judged on past mistakes. She also serves as an example that whatever one has done can be forgiven. You are missing the point, she isn't being holier than thou, she is trying to follow her beliefs. And one would have to be naïve to think that none of us, our actions, are not shaped by our beliefs. As to your last sentence above, she doesn't want her signature on the licenses as it = her giving her approval.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
The difference is that she is using her personal religious beliefs to refuse others their constitutional rights.
If others are doing the same I would expect that they shut up and either do their job, or resign. Just like I expect this clerk to do.
You are aware that the people suing the county to have their legal rights acknowledged specifically asked that she not be jailed, right?
The judge made a decision based upon the law, not by taking a public opinion poll …
But, I'll bite … If "the people suing the county to have their legal rights acknowledged" had asked the judge to sentence her to, say, ten years at hard labor, should the judge have done that … ???
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