Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At Brickell Point in Miami, it is this little park that has some old Native American post holes, so it is a preserved site. On this park, there is a bunch of plaques stating the history of the place in a timeline format. As you read each one, you will notice something; everything bad that happened, like enslaving the Natives, killing, shipping them to the islands, etc, the plaques will state "Europeans did such and such". Everything positive that happened, like exploring, construction, trade, basically anything to do with not killing and pillaging, the plaques state "The Spanish did such and such". Even though the Spanish are European, in my opinion is was purposely biased as people will identify with Europeans as being "white" while the Spanish, though technically white, are "Hispanic" and are distinct from other whites.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 1 day ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,599,675 times
Reputation: 5697
I say acknowledge the good and the bad. Just don't hide stuff or (or even give just a token passing glance at) our heroes. Granted some of Jefferson's bad points (particularly of an explicitly sexual nature) should be kept out at any grade below at least junior high.* Teach the "good" points traditionally taught, but let kids know the Founding Fathers weren't perfect. I wonder how the FF themselves would feel if they knew they'd be elevated to a semi-angelic status.
Simply say in so many words "TJ was a brilliant man who played a vital role in expressing our ideals, and even played a major role in shaping the direction they would take. Yet, like all people, he had his faults - in this case what we recognize today as very bad ones, namely slaveownership (and slave-master sex relations, for older students). Most people fail to live up to their ideals, and TJ was no different. Respect him for his accomplishments? Yes. The best role model for you students, No."
Why can't the message be like that?
*Personally I'd say high school where it concerns the outright sexual stuff. if that particular detail belongs in sub-college level at all. But that's just my take on the matter.
This is what college students do. They rebel against a cause, however misguided. Don't you remember attending college like, what, 50 years ago? I am sure it was like 100% worse than now. . . . I am sure people in your parents' and grandparents' generations were convinced that Lucifer ran the universities in the 1960's.
First of all, I love the irony that it was Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase that caused Missouri to be part of the US to begin with..
Also, I often contemplate how much more good there would be in this world if this generation focused on making a difference in a POSITIVE way instead of running around looking for something to offend them.
Plant a tree Join a Habitat for Humanity build Volunteer at a homeless shelter
It seems to me this is a lazy way to make them feel like they are "making a difference".
Instead of tearing something down, they should build something up.
Some how this is racist and only those who have money do these things.......our youth learn from their parents. Usually lazy kids had lazy parents and parents who sat around thinking the world did them wrong. All the while living off of what others have worked for!
I say acknowledge the good and the bad. Just don't hide stuff or (or even give just a token passing glance at) our heroes. Granted some of Jefferson's bad points (particularly of an explicitly sexual nature) should be kept out at any grade below at least junior high.* Teach the "good" points traditionally taught, but let kids know the Founding Fathers weren't perfect. I wonder how the FF themselves would feel if they knew they'd be elevated to a semi-angelic status.
Simply say in so many words "TJ was a brilliant man who played a vital role in expressing our ideals, and even played a major role in shaping the direction they would take. Yet, like all people, he had his faults - in this case what we recognize today as very bad ones, namely slaveownership (and slave-master sex relations, for older students). Most people fail to live up to their ideals, and TJ was no different. Respect him for his accomplishments? Yes. The best role model for you students, No."
Why can't the message be like that?
*Personally I'd say high school where it concerns the outright sexual stuff. if that particular detail belongs in sub-college level at all. But that's just my take on the matter.
The goal is to get rid of Jefferson, than they can say the Constitution is racist and unneeded! This is just the start. Are the people going to sit on their hands and allow our youth to take away all of our History and make us look like the bad people to the rest of the world????
At Brickell Point in Miami, it is this little park that has some old Native American post holes, so it is a preserved site. On this park, there is a bunch of plaques stating the history of the place in a timeline format. As you read each one, you will notice something; everything bad that happened, like enslaving the Natives, killing, shipping them to the islands, etc, the plaques will state "Europeans did such and such". Everything positive that happened, like exploring, construction, trade, basically anything to do with not killing and pillaging, the plaques state "The Spanish did such and such". Even though the Spanish are European, in my opinion is was purposely biased as people will identify with Europeans as being "white" while the Spanish, though technically white, are "Hispanic" and are distinct from other whites.
This post really surprised me, not because I disagreed with it, but because I had no idea this kind of thing was going on throughout the U.S., and it reminded me of what I felt while on a recent sightseeing vacation to Washington, D.C.,Jamestown, Williamsburg, and Monticello. It seemed to me both then and now that the presentations we saw at the various museums have a definite "lean" to boosting non-Anglo culture while downplaying Anglo contributions and perpetuating Anglo guilt. In my opinion, this was especially noticeable at the National Portrait Gallery, which devoted quite a bit of space to modern sports and arts celebrities, and to non-Anglos who lived prior to 1900, who were not famous, but who nevertheless made important contributions (such as, for example, a black telegraph operator during the civil war). Now my guess is that this was to make everyone of all races and ancestries feel that we are ALL a part of U.S. history; however, that kind of not-too-subtle PR did surprise me.
Then, in Monticello, the slave tour we took in addition to the usual house tour left me with no doubt that Jefferson was a very flawed man and a hypocrite in many ways, and although very little attention was paid to his many historical accomplishments, a great deal of time was spent on his architectural innovations, wine and book collections, etc. I do realize that this was a tour of Jefferson's home and not a tour of a museum devoted to his political and historical achievements, but the tour left me feeling more ashamed of Jefferson than anything else. My opinion is that the Monticello tour would give anyone who did not know anything about Jefferson the impression that he was just one of many very rich white men -- although he lived above his means and died broke and left a mountain of debt -- who lived a life of ease and scholarly pursuit while black slaves did almost all of the work. (Which is true, but that is not ALL he was.)
So I am left wondering if these kind of things are a DELIBERATE attempt to make Anglos feel ashamed and to make non-Anglos feel that their history is every bit as great and that they contributed just much to the U.S.A. as the Anglos did (which may very well be true) -- and thereby fueling their feelings of injustice and anger at the very real mistreatment they have received over the years.
Last edited by katharsis; 10-20-2015 at 08:40 AM..
At Brickell Point in Miami, it is this little park that has some old Native American post holes, so it is a preserved site. On this park, there is a bunch of plaques stating the history of the place in a timeline format. As you read each one, you will notice something; everything bad that happened, like enslaving the Natives, killing, shipping them to the islands, etc, the plaques will state "Europeans did such and such". Everything positive that happened, like exploring, construction, trade, basically anything to do with not killing and pillaging, the plaques state "The Spanish did such and such". Even though the Spanish are European, in my opinion is was purposely biased as people will identify with Europeans as being "white" while the Spanish, though technically white, are "Hispanic" and are distinct from other whites.
I think the best course would be to only identify settlers/invaders by country of origin if it can easily be done and it is for a specific reason. I think doing anything else is just really unnecessary and divisive.
Very few people living in the U.S. now are "pure" anything, except the most recent arrivals, and that, of course, is debatable. However, I do wish, however, that we could agree on what term to use for non-Latin whites whose ancestors mainly came from Northern Europe and who spoke English, Welsh, Danish, German, etc. as opposed to those who came from Southern Europe and spoke Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, Italian, etc. Maybe Northern European Americans for the first group and Southern European Americans for the second group? But, again, I think it is sad that we are not yet at a point -- and in fact, are far from it -- that race and ancestry is even relevant in most cases.
Last edited by katharsis; 10-20-2015 at 08:45 AM..
This is what college students do. They rebel against a cause, however misguided. Don't you remember attending college like, what, 50 years ago? I am sure it was like 100% worse than now. . . . I am sure people in your parents' and grandparents' generations were convinced that Lucifer ran the universities in the 1960's.
Mick
How are they rebelling? They're just parroting back the leftist world views of their 60's people profs.
I say acknowledge the good and the bad. Just don't hide stuff or (or even give just a token passing glance at) our heroes. Granted some of Jefferson's bad points (particularly of an explicitly sexual nature) should be kept out at any grade below at least junior high.* Teach the "good" points traditionally taught, but let kids know the Founding Fathers weren't perfect. I wonder how the FF themselves would feel if they knew they'd be elevated to a semi-angelic status.
Simply say in so many words "TJ was a brilliant man who played a vital role in expressing our ideals, and even played a major role in shaping the direction they would take. Yet, like all people, he had his faults - in this case what we recognize today as very bad ones, namely slaveownership (and slave-master sex relations, for older students). Most people fail to live up to their ideals, and TJ was no different. Respect him for his accomplishments? Yes. The best role model for you students, No."
Why can't the message be like that?
*Personally I'd say high school where it concerns the outright sexual stuff. if that particular detail belongs in sub-college level at all. But that's just my take on the matter.
That's reasonable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
