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This is what Obama and Kerry call success after the Paris climate summit.
That was recent, this is not anything new in China. This is the result of years, decades of unregulated factories spewing pollutants into the air. At least now the Chinese are admitting there is an issue, and doing something about it. I recently heard they are one of the new leaders in the creation of new green technology and green jobs. I don;t know if they participated in the Paris summit, but how on earth anyone could blame Obama and Kerry for this, well, all I can say is, your agenda is showing.
Yes, so let's end all regulations on business so we can be just like them! Folks who are against regulations on business, THIS is what happens without them.
I think a big issue here is that China is still a developing country. Many developing countries are very harsh in how they treat the environment. But China is exceptionally bad and even the developed cities that one would expect to be much better on the pollution end are not. So I get both sides - apologists and critics. I've heard both arguments made for the pollution situation. I personally am more of a critic.
China is still literally building cities. There are still incredibly poor people living in the countryside farming and living in one or two room shacks with a lack of education and medical care.
Do you know what happens when we put excessive regulations on manufacturing, and China doesn't ?
All manufacturing moves to China.
There they produce the same amount of goods they did in the US, but with a much higher amount of pollution.
So in the end, we get more pollution and less jobs.
The answer is not to place even more regulations on US companies while letting China slide. The answer is to place tariffs on Chinese products unless they lower their pollution levels. And gradually increase regulations in the US while increasing pollution restrictions on Chinese goods.
So in the end you are agreeing with me, it sounds like, you're just calling for gradual regulation increases...that's fine. I think we have fair laws now, but the "Clean Air Act" allowed more pollution and I do believe we are seeing the effects of it in the rise of asthma rates and other disorders. Some people however want to actually decrease regulations though, that is what I think the mistake is. We need to enforce the ones we have (did we learn nothing from BP?) Is it coincidence the FDA's decreased budgets over the years results in fewer inspectors, and now cases of salmonella and e-coli and all sorts of other waves of food-borne illnesses are getting by? Is that good for business in the long run? Ask Chipoltle's stockholders.
So in the end you are agreeing with me, it sounds like, you're just calling for gradual regulation increases...that's fine. I think we have fair laws now, but the "Clean Air Act" allowed more pollution and I do believe we are seeing the effects of it in the rise of asthma rates and other disorders. Some people however want to actually decrease regulations though, that is what I think the mistake is. We need to enforce the ones we have (did we learn nothing from BP?) Is it coincidence the FDA's decreased budgets over the years results in fewer inspectors, and now cases of salmonella and e-coli and all sorts of other waves of food-borne illnesses are getting by? Is that good for business in the long run? Ask Chipoltle's stockholders.
I don't quite agree with you.
I believe that without protecting US manufacturers from overseas competition that doesn't have to live by the same strict environmental standards, all these regulations do is encourage the domestic manufacturing to relocate to the less restrictive countries.
I don't think decreasing the existing regulation is the answer, and I certainly think that the existing regulations - especially food quality regulations - must be enforced much more vigorously than they are now.
However we must also make sure that the products of manufacturing done in heavily polluting countries are hit with stiff tariffs. Not just in the US, but in the EU and Canada and the rest of the developed world. Otherwise our environmental regulations coupled with our wide open market will only result in companies moving factories to cheaper countries and more pollution worldwide. Not less. Which is the paradox many militant tree-huggers seem unable to grasp. (and I don't mean you).
Environmental regulations make manufacturing more expensive and less competitive. If you want to have these regulation and still retain domestic manufacturing, you must level the field by making their competition more expensive and less competitive on your home market. You do that by forcing them to chose between either paying heavy tariffs for products made in their polluting factories, or by investing in clean technology.
This will however not happen. If China decides to clean up their act, they will do it on their terms.
Last edited by Ummagumma; 12-24-2015 at 07:41 PM..
The air quality in China is the worst I have personally ever seen. On a vacation there, I arrived at night. I was hoping for a beautiful sunny day to go sight seeing. I walked outside and it was so overcast that I commented to an English speaking member of the hotel staff on how I had wished it was a sunny day and if he thought it would rain. He said to me, "It is not going to rain, there is not a cloud in the sky." Much to my amazement, I looked up to the sky and saw a faint orange ball, that was the sun, hidden by thick smog. So many people were wearing those mask, like they do in the hospital.
That was 15 years ago. Back then, not so many people had cars. Now, it seems like most people do have cars. It must be 100 times worse. Good luck China and the rest of the world too. Where does all that smog go to anyway? Think about that.
Major Chinese cities have had severe pollution issues before. This is nothing new. This "emergency" that is being reported in China, well, I will tell you this. The levels of air pollution being tolerated daily in Chinese cities would literally constitute an emergency in the USA. This should let you know what kind of air is being breathed in many cities. Air pollution has been quite bad in China for quite some time. People have died in large numbers from the air pollution.
What is more disturbing is that it took things getting this bad for China to act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Above Average Bear
I was in Hong Kong 20 years ago and it was pretty bad then. No pollution controls whatsoever on buses and trucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood55
The air quality in China is the worst I have personally ever seen.
That was 15 years ago. Back then, not so many people had cars. Now, it seems like most people do have cars. It must be 100 times worse. Good luck China and the rest of the world too. Where does all that smog go to anyway? Think about that.
There were discussions during the late 70's and 80's about "What if China buys cars as much
as other countries do?" Well, they are and it's affecting the people who live there and the
planet.
I believe that without protecting US manufacturers from overseas competition that doesn't have to live by the same strict environmental standards, all these regulations do is encourage the domestic manufacturing to relocate to the less restrictive countries.
That's exactly what has happened, and what will continue to happen. Many people think it's about the cost of labor, but that's only one component. You can get away with so much more in China, like dumping industrial waste in rivers, or burning it into the air.
That's exactly what has happened, and what will continue to happen. Many people think it's about the cost of labor, but that's only one component. You can get away with so much more in China, like dumping industrial waste in rivers, or burning it into the air.
And yet, we keep promoting "free trade" as if it was a religion.
Oh, yes, let's abolish the EPA and the Clean Air Act.
Mick
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