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It is interesting you should bring the fencing issue up - the Hammonds were arrested for interfering with and threatening rangers who were trying to put up fences on public land to keep the Hammonds cattle out of the wildlife refuge. I think you have it entirely backwards.
I have no problem with beef prices representing the actual cost of raising beef,
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Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
Desert cattle hardly eat a lot of grass, have you seen desert cattle? As for the Rockies you will not see cattle in the forest much, due to the introducing of the wolf, this does not benefit the rancher. Plus, BLM does not secure their fence lines, this is why Bundy's cattle kept going through. It was not Bundy's fencing that was the problem, BLM refused to fix theirs!
Desert cattle hardly eat a lot of grass, have you seen desert cattle? As for the Rockies you will not see cattle in the forest much, due to the introducing of the wolf, this does not benefit the rancher. Plus, BLM does not secure their fence lines, this is why Bundy's cattle kept going through. It was not Bundy's fencing that was the problem, BLM refused to fix theirs!
Are you asking for beef prices to go WAY UP?
It seems like these disagreements between the federal government and public land ranching has been going on since I was a kid. My recollection is that the grazing did cause significant environmental harm.
Putting aside the romantic notion of ranching in the western states, the amount of beef supplied by public land ranching was in the order of 2 percent back in the nineties. I can't imagine the issue of cheap beef prices is an issue here.
No doubt it seems like a win/win until something goes wrong. Like ranchers killing endangered species because they feel it interferes with their animals or the farmers blocking others from using it, even if they are entitled.
Well, I have to say the only thing most ranchers are killing are coyotes and wolves, which both in these parts have become out of control. Man happens to be their only predator. Ranchers are usually the only ones willing to keep the population down, while liberals want to cage them and then have them killed. I lived by state land when they introduced the wolf, the management is all wrong!
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Does it matter if it was intentional? Also they have been found to be guilty by a jury of their peers.
If it was intentionally set with the purpose of saving their cattle feed, but got out of hand, this should certainly be considered.
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So perhaps if there are plants growing there someone should not set them on fire?
Not exactly lush green plants possibly some, more likely shrub and small flower plants. These plants/weeds tend to grow back faster after a fire goes through. A lot of these weeds are on the list of obnoxious weed, when let go, they tend to take over areas and kill other living plants. BLM is not very good at taking care of these weeds on their land.......by the way what does BLM do with all the $$$$ given to them??
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Also if it is a desert what is the rancher grazing there? What is he doing with this BLM land? Why is he a rancher in a desert?
See how much people really know about Western ranchers and where their wrapped up beef displayed at the market, really comes from. The cattle are there for various reasons and one is beef to the market. The ranchers only use the land to graze a few months and this helps the state maintain the land, along with fire prevention.
This link below helps explain the fees charged by the Feds.........
Well, I have to say the only thing most ranchers are killing are coyotes and wolves, which both in these parts have become out of control. Man happens to be their only predator. Ranchers are usually the only ones willing to keep the population down, while liberals want to cage them and then have them killed. I lived by state land when they introduced the wolf, the management is all wrong!
If it was intentionally set with the purpose of saving their cattle feed, but got out of hand, this should certainly be considered.
Not exactly lush green plants possibly some, more likely shrub and small flower plants. These plants/weeds tend to grow back faster after a fire goes through. A lot of these weeds are on the list of obnoxious weed, when let go, they tend to take over areas and kill other living plants. BLM is not very good at taking care of these weeds on their land.......by the way what does BLM do with all the $$$$ given to them??
See how much people really know about Western ranchers and where their wrapped up beef displayed at the market, really comes from. The cattle are there for various reasons and one is beef to the market. The ranchers only use the land to graze a few months and this helps the state maintain the land, along with fire prevention.
This link below helps explain the fees charged by the Feds.........
I really am not going to argue for the BLM. I thought you were interested in this but it seems you have an opinion. I am really not interested in these ranchers but I do not think that arson is a good thing to start ignoring.
It is interesting you should bring the fencing issue up - the Hammonds were arrested for interfering with and threatening rangers who were trying to put up fences on public land to keep the Hammonds cattle out of the wildlife refuge. I think you have it entirely backwards.
I really am not going to argue for the BLM. I thought you were interested in this but it seems you have an opinion. I am really not interested in these ranchers but I do not think that arson is a good thing to start ignoring.
If you do not like the BLM I could care less.
I have nothing against honest BLM employees. I have lived near state land and I know how they have tried to control the people that have no interest in their land, but only live by it. I have seen changes in the forest in the last 25 years, makes me wonder why they feel they can take the land from the people. They now have fences to lock people out and most is done toward the end of hunting season, leaving hunters no way into the forest. I have seen clear cutting that makes no sense at all, they don't even clean up the forest of dead debris. It is left there to fuel the huge wildfires we put up with every summer.
You mentioned fires in California, my bet many Californians have no idea what goes on in the forest or their mountains. The drug cartel does and BLM is after ranchers. I happen to know the mountains of Northern Calif very well and have seen the many changes there.
They can't claim a tortoise was the reason the Bundy's couldn't graze their cattle and when that didn't pan out they went for unpaid fees. My only issue I won't turn turn my head and act like our government is playing fair, all the time. Seems they are doing the same thing with the Hammonds.
I am not ignoring arson......seems arson was just the bigger ticket. As far as I am concerned seems like poaching is just as important, yet they are choosing to ignore poaching.
I have nothing against honest BLM employees. I have lived near state land and I know how they have tried to control the people that have no interest in their land, but only live by it. I have seen changes in the forest in the last 25 years, makes me wonder why they feel they can take the land from the people. They now have fences to lock people out and most is done toward the end of hunting season, leaving hunters no way into the forest. I have seen clear cutting that makes no sense at all, they don't even clean up the forest of dead debris. It is left there to fuel the huge wildfires we put up with every summer.
You mentioned fires in California, my bet many Californians have no idea what goes on in the forest or their mountains. The drug cartel does and BLM is after ranchers. I happen to know the mountains of Northern Calif very well and have seen the many changes there.
They can't claim a tortoise was the reason the Bundy's couldn't graze their cattle and when that didn't pan out they went for unpaid fees. My only issue I won't turn turn my head and act like our government is playing fair, all the time. Seems they are doing the same thing with the Hammonds.
I am not ignoring arson......seems arson was just the bigger ticket. As far as I am concerned seems like poaching is just as important, yet they are choosing to ignore poaching.
You seems to have a lot of issues and I really am not going to get into it.
I will address one point though. The poaching. You say they are ignoring it. What do you base this on?
Five years seems like a bit much for 138 + 1 acres, especially since it involved the dreaded Western Juniper. Everybody and their dog hates those things, including the BLM. Junipers squeeze out grasses, aspens, everything actually. Then there's nothing for the birds, elk and other wildlife to eat. The BLM doesn't go to jail when their fires jump, so there must be more to the story.
There is more to the story - it was arson not an accident.
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Originally Posted by elan
Five years seems like a bit much for 138 + 1 acres, especially since it involved the dreaded Western Juniper. Everybody and their dog hates those things, including the BLM. Junipers squeeze out grasses, aspens, everything actually. Then there's nothing for the birds, elk and other wildlife to eat. The BLM doesn't go to jail when their fires jump, so there must be more to the story.
Five years seems like a bit much for 138 + 1 acres, especially since it involved the dreaded Western Juniper. Everybody and their dog hates those things, including the BLM. Junipers squeeze out grasses, aspens, everything actually. Then there's nothing for the birds, elk and other wildlife to eat. The BLM doesn't go to jail when their fires jump, so there must be more to the story.
But when you start a fire and it gets out of control how do you know before hand that it is going to be 138 acres and not 10,000 acres?
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I happen to know the mountains of Northern Calif very well and have seen the many changes there.
