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You don't put a beach leading to water at a family resort and not expect toddler to wade in the water...with no signs warning of more than just 'no swimming'. Communities from North Carolina to Florida, South Carolina to Lousiana have fresh water ponds....and insurance companies, municipalities all require them to warn of the potential of alligators with signs. I can't believe Disney would not have thought this was a risk. I saw posts where other families say their children were playing.
Sorry -- this is on Disney.........they should have known better. They will settle out of court..........
I believe the lagoon was manmade. Was it self-contained or connected to a river or marsh?
My understanding is that the lagoon is not self-contained; it is connected by an aqueduct to a much larger body of freshwater.
Not that it matters much, as you'll see below...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangelag
I don't think alligators are 'stocked'. Alligators go wherever they want to.
And they are good diggers, and smaller gators can climb fences. So even if a freshwater pond IS self-contained, it's likely that sooner or later an alligator will find a way into it. That's just life as usual in Florida.
More kids die in parked cars than they do by animals. Why don't car makers put signs in cars that says to not lock up your kid inside?
I know you're being facetious (or perhaps you're not), but they wouldn't work anyway. Clearly, signs don't work. Even if there were signs explicitly warning of alligators and telling you swimming is prohibited, there would still be that one idiot (or two or three) a year at Disney or wherever who tempt fate anyway, and maybe lose their life for it. There will ALWAYS be an exception, always be "that one guy" who ruins it for everyone or who ignores common sense and blatantly posted signs or warnings and does something they shouldn't, then gets themselves seriously hurt or killed. Then there are always their families who attempt to blame everyone else and sue, and win money, and manage to get the warnings changed to something even more explicitly stated, or manage to close down a whole park or something. There will always be an exception, and never be an instance where NO ONE gets hurt or dies doing something, no matter how safe it may seem or should be.
You can't win. Statistically, you can't. That's why I don't even get outraged in a case like the one with this kid in Disney. I don't say, "they should have posted signs warning about alligators, Disney is negligent, this family should sue!" etc etc. How many people visit Disney a year? Tens of millions. How many died with the COD being an alligator or caused by an alligator attack? Only this one, in all the years Disney has been in existence. I'm not mad at Disney. I don't fault them. I'm not looking for anyone to blame. The parents IMHO made a stupid decision, but even then I don't "blame" them. They're going through hell enough as it is.
I'm not necessarily saying that the family should sue Disney; but I think there is grounds for a claim. What the courts do with it remains to be seen.
Do you think that if DISNEY had posted signs every 50 ft. or so (or closer) around the lagoon depicting an alligator with its mouth wide open, with the words No Swimming on them, the mother would have gone wading with the child? Could the lagoon be an "attractive nuisance" since it lacked signs that said No Swimming or signs warning of alligators (or both), as would a private individual's unfenced pool?
Without an accident report, how do they know what changes need to be made? You can make all the changes in the world, but what if the driver of the duck boat or the scooter operator was at fault? I wouldn't make a turn along side of a duck boat, just wouldn't do it.
I'm not necessarily saying that the family should sue Disney; but I think there is grounds for a claim. What the courts do with it remains to be seen.
Do you think that if DISNEY had posted signs every 50 ft. or so (or closer) around the lagoon depicting an alligator with its mouth wide open, with the words No Swimming on them, the mother would have gone wading with the child? Could the lagoon be an "attractive nuisance" since it lacked signs that said No Swimming or signs warning of alligators (or both), as would a private individual's unfenced pool?
Well, the lagoon DID have signs saying swimming was not allowed, just nothing about alligators at this particular resort. Apparently a nearby resort has signs warning of alligators.
Would this mother have taken her child in the water if signs about alligators were there? I'd like to think not. I'd like to HOPE not. But would a group of say, 20 year old guys having fun in Disney together still go in the water? I wouldn't put it past them. "Here, hold my beer" type of typical groups of young guys with still underdeveloped brains behavior. Like I said, there will always be that "one guy." You're never going to have 100% of the population obey the rules. I mean, a little caption in this article about a woman getting her arm bitten off last year by an alligator in FL says she ignored signs warning of alligators. No way was that the first time someone has ignored a warning sign...
Accountability on both sides is always needed. Whether it be care by the parents, or warnings in areas where there should be.
My kids are grown up now, but it takes a split second to lose sight of a young child. For that one can't truly be blamed. But when it happens in a dangerous area, then extra care and due diligence is needed. Who is to decide who's more wrong in these situations?
I think it was last year there were a rash of shark attacks along the eastern seaboard. Sure, more signs can and should be posted regarding the risk of sharks. But unless you officially close down a beach, then it's your risk to take. If Disney knew of the risk, and knowing their property is chock full of kids, how accountable for warnings around their property should they be responsible for? Well, now that an alligator has done the unthinkable inside their park, the ball is in their court to take action. Disney is a kids park, so I feel they now must take corrective action, just like Boston is trying to do with the Duckboats after someone was killed. They've already installed cameras on the boats and are taking further action. All you can ask for is increased preventative measures. Cost alone cannot be a reason not to.
Would this mother have taken her child in the water if signs about alligators were there? I'd like to think not. I'd like to HOPE not. But would a group of say, 20 year old guys having fun in Disney together still go in the water? I wouldn't put it past them. "Here, hold my beer" type of typical groups of young guys with still underdeveloped brains behavior. Like I said, there will always be that "one guy." You're never going to have 100% of the population obey the rules. I mean, a little caption in this article about a woman getting her arm bitten off last year by an alligator in FL says she ignored signs warning of alligators. No way was that the first time someone has ignored a warning sign...
True, but let's not go overboard and conclude that warning signs are therefore useless. We hear about the morons who Darwinize themselves because they ignored the warning signs. In contrast, we don't know how many people DID read the warning sign and heed it, and so avoided doing something dangerous. The latter incident understandably does not make the news.
If someone dies because they were ignorant of an avoidable danger, that is a tragedy. If someone dies because they did something stupid despite being warned of the danger, that's just evolution in action. Willful stupidity can have lethal consequences; that's always been true, and always will be true.
In NJ, there are signs all over beaches saying that swimming without lifeguards is prohibited. When the lifeguards leave for the day, they blow the whistle, pull everyone out of the water, move their lifeguard towers/chairs up the beach a bit for the night, and head out. Once they're gone, people go straight back into the water. Most drownings by far, if not all honestly, occur when lifeguards are off duty. Signs are clearly posted. It is swim at your own risk at that point. Whose fault is that, then, when people drown in a rip current or whatever because guards are gone and by the time help arrives, it's too late?
I'm a big advocate for personal responsibility, unless IMO negligence is clear. In a case like a drowning when lifeguards are off duty and signs say no swimming without lifeguards, to me there is clearly no negligence. It's pure stupidity. In a case like the little boy in FL, I can honestly see the case for negligence on Disney for not mentioning alligators, at least this particular resort because apparently others warn of gators in the water, but at the same time there WAS a sign prohibiting swimming. Now, what is one's definition of swimming? I think, if this plays out and actually becomes a case, the arguments would be interesting, because for a 2 year old to be swimming in a foot of water, that's technically deep enough for a person of his size to be seen as a swimmable depth IMO. Does swimming literally mean just swimming, or does it include wading and being the water? I personally see it as being in the water in general but that's just me. Like I said, if I saw a sign that said no swimming I would not even be in that water knee deep.
If anything, the resort/Disney will likely be forced to change their signs because of this, even though common sense and the actual rate of gator attacks (zero before this) should prove it unnecessary... like I said, there's always that one person... ruins it/changes it for everyone.
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