Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can try to find this one article if you want - his friends said it was originally going to be a group and it was for her birthday. People dropped out and it ended up being just the two of them. So they planned it for a month and I don't know whether it was her or her friends' (collective) idea but it wasn't his idea, anyway.
I don't know about the gun. I do know people who seem to love their guns, do take them to various places...comments to this effect are all over certain factions of C-D...that's another subject entirely, of course. But the idea is "you never know" and "just in case."
Either way, the motives for the hike didn't rest on just one person, apparently several people were all for this. I agree with Ruth and it could have been the "I'll never die" viewpoint of youth...and trying dangerous stuff. No, we'll never *truly* know, I suppose.
Thanks for reminding us of that group-planning background. I also vaguely recall something about how there was a guy she was into, whom she wanted to go with, but he declined, or couldn't make it in the end, so she invited Orbezo.
So I guess the group was completely misguided, when they planned the birthday hike. No connection to reality at all. Just "Oh, yeah, cool hike!" thoughts. No serious research or consideration about the fact that it's basically considered closed for summers, with good reason. And of course, they couldn't have anticipated a heat wave, on top of the normally prohibitive temps.
Still, he didn't say he was taking the gun "just in case", on general principle. He said he was taking it, because she had a stalker. So I guess he was thinking he might have to shoot the stalker, supposedly. I think he made the stalker story up. Which is a very weird thing to do.
But you're right that all the other circumstances make the tragedy look innocent. There's just that one niggly thing, about the gun and his odd excuse for taking it.
Thanks for reminding us of that group-planning background. I also vaguely recall something about how there was a guy she was into, whom she wanted to go with, but he declined, or couldn't make it in the end, so she invited Orbezo.
So I guess the group was completely misguided, when they planned the birthday hike. No connection to reality at all. Just "Oh, yeah, cool hike!" thoughts. No serious research or consideration about the fact that it's basically considered closed for summers, with good reason. And of course, they couldn't have anticipated a heat wave, on top of the normally prohibitive temps.
Still, he didn't say he was taking the gun "just in case", on general principle. He said he was taking it, because she had a stalker. So I guess he was thinking he might have to shoot the stalker, supposedly. I think he made the stalker story up. Which is a very weird thing to do.
But you're right that all the other circumstances make the tragedy look innocent. There's just that one niggly thing, about the gun and his odd excuse for taking it.
I wonder what friends/family would have to say about the stalker thing? If they knew about it then it may not have just been made up by this guy. If they didn't that WOULD be weird. If someone was legitimately stalking her it's likely other people knew. If nobody knew, then...
I wonder what friends/family would have to say about the stalker thing? If they knew about it then it may not have just been made up by this guy. If they didn't that WOULD be weird. If someone was legitimately stalking her it's likely other people knew. If nobody knew, then...
Even if she had a stalker, would that person have followed her out to where the B & B was, stayed the night (without her noticing), then followed the two of them out to the park? This just isn't a realistic story.
I wonder what friends/family would have to say about the stalker thing? If they knew about it then it may not have just been made up by this guy. If they didn't that WOULD be weird. If someone was legitimately stalking her it's likely other people knew. If nobody knew, then...
I'm sure they've asked all the friends if this guy was in the habit of taking a gun with him everywhere, for no reason, you know, just because. We don't have open carry in California, btw, and it's not easy to get a concealed carry permit. In other words, just his being in possession of a loaded gun while walking in the park would most likely have been a misdemeanor, if not a felony. It's not the kind of thing most people would risk just because their girlfriend has been annoyed by a stalker who is probably a hundred miles away.
Even if she had a stalker, would that person have followed her out to where the B & B was, stayed the night (without her noticing), then followed the two of them out to the park? This just isn't a realistic story.
I don't know, though, isn't this what stalkers do? Find you wherever you are?
I mean I'm not supporting this as an excuse and it would have been legit, I really don't know. He could have just been the paranoid and fearful type and want to take his gun places with him (no shortage of such types), just saying, stalkers do come find you. Though I've never personally had one, thank God.
I'm sure they've asked all the friends if this guy was in the habit of taking a gun with him everywhere, for no reason, you know, just because. We don't have open carry in California, btw, and it's not easy to get a concealed carry permit. In other words, just his being in possession of a loaded gun while walking in the park would most likely have been a misdemeanor, if not a felony. It's not the kind of thing most people would risk just because their girlfriend has been annoyed by a stalker who is probably a hundred miles away.
No, I was saying, if she legitimately had a stalker, her friends probably knew about that. Relax.
And it's weird that you don't think he would "risk" being busted for carrying a gun, because of laws, but that he would go ahead and just shoot someone to death. (???)
No, I was saying, if she legitimately had a stalker, her friends probably knew about that. Relax.
And it's weird that you don't think he would "risk" being busted for carrying a gun, because of laws, but that he would go ahead and just shoot someone to death. (???)
Well, of course, if you're planning to commit suicide then all rules are off.
The fact that he DID risk having a gun, to me, is strong evidence that murder/suicide was intended. Because it would be really stupid to wander around with a loaded gun just in case ol' Johnny shows up on the scene in search of the girl.
Well, of course, if you're planning to commit suicide then all rules are off.
The fact that he DID risk having a gun, to me, is strong evidence that murder/suicide was intended. Because it would be really stupid to wander around with a loaded gun just in case ol' Johnny shows up on the scene in search of the girl.
Not that people don't do stupid things.
The issue about concealed carry was brought up earlier in the thread, and someone said he worked as a security guard, so he had a permit. Whether that would mean he'd be within his rights to take a gun into the park, IDK. We have another thread going currently, about gunshots in a regional or national park, and it was said that carrying a gun in the park is illegal. I don't know the ins and outs of gun laws.
If you're used to trail hiking, Angel's Landing is not bad at all. It's a beautiful hike. Of course, if you are prone to vertigo and/or normally walk only on paved surfaces, it may not be the best idea. I'm 49 and would hike it again in a heartbeat, but I also mountain bike several times a week, am fit and not easily intimidated. So, know your limitations.
You mean the one where you climb up the rocks holding onto chains, and dozens of people have fallen to their deaths? I've see YouTube videos of that. Honestly when I was a teenager I would have probably done that, but not any more. When I was a kid it didn't bother me to stand on the edge of rocks or cliffs, but I have just lost the urge to do that.
I don't know about the gun. I do know people who seem to love their guns, do take them to various places...comments to this effect are all over certain factions of C-D...that's another subject entirely, of course. But the idea is "you never know" and "just in case."
Bingo, people love their guns. I don't personally get it, but it's not uncommon for people in the US to be carrying guns, legally or illegally.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've see YouTube videos of that. Honestly when I was a teenager I would have probably done that, but not any more. When I was a kid it didn't bother me to stand on the edge of rocks or cliffs, but I have just lost the urge to do that.
