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They are erotic, especially the Boucher. He was known for that.
Look, just because he was known for a particular style doesn't have to mean every single thing he ever did was erotic. The picture IN QUESTION, the one the kids actually saw was a nude, maybe very mildly erotic but nothing overt about it. I guess some people will see anything nude as erotic, and of course as I mentioned children at that age can find any sort of nudity to be awkward for them.
I have trouble with your posts because you can't seem to single out the offending pictures from the body of work the artists are known for. And because you seem determined that the teacher specifically chose these pictures for lewd purposes instead of giving the benefit of the doubt that that he thought it would be fine to use a set of materials supplied by the school.
I mean, if you're sending your child to a school with over 400 students (ie, the school in this example) how does it work that you give control to 400+ sets of parents with 400+ ideas of what is appropriate? There are elections for school boards. There are forums where parents can give input. But, guess what? In the end, it's going to be administration and teachers who make the final decision. Each of the 400+ sets of parents aren't going to be individually going through the library and all other educational materials and having veto power over everything you happen to dislike.
This doesn't speak to this specific issue, but the idea that every parent can pre-empt whatever they find objectionable is about as unworkable a proposal as I've ever heard. Aside from previewing all educational materials, how could a parent ever hope to root all that meets their subjective notions of appropriate? Sure, I get that some of the time a subject is obvious. I remember the parents who yanked their kids out of sex education - because ignorance is the best solution (never mind that a lack of sec education positively correlates with higher teen pregnancy rates, not to mention higher STD infection rates). And then there's evolution - scary science of the devil! Someone reads The Lorax in class in timber country, and just watch the reaction (not kidding - google it).
No curriculum is going to be tailored around the likes and dislikes of any one specific parent.
Yes, I hear what you're saying. But like with sex ed, which you mentioned (and I agree with you BTW) schools recognize that sex ed is a sensitive subject, so they allow parents to opt in or out for their kids. You and I might not agree with parents "shielding" their children from what we consider important health information, but I do think it's each parent's' right on such issues. Similarly, the topic of nudity, even in the context of classical art, is a sensitive subject for elementary school children. So I can understand that some parents would not want their children viewing it. I think parents should have a say on these sensitive issues.
I realize a public school can't possibly accommodate every preference/quirk/religious belief, but they do need to offer flexibility on touchy subjects when possible.
Last edited by kayanne; 01-01-2018 at 04:56 PM..
Reason: Typo
You don't get the connection because you obviously skimmed through this thread without reading it. Go back, read the thread, and you'll understand why I brought this up. I'm not going to waste time recapping the discussion to help you understand when you could just read it yourself.
I read this entire thread and all the links to the news stories. Your family member's child rearing methods have nothing to do with what went on in the Utah classroom. The only connection is nudity. There is a difference between a parent exposing their child to R rated films and an art teacher teaching art which often portrays the nude human body.
If you want to discuss your family member's child rearing practices take it to the parenting or nonromantic relationship subforum because it does not apply to this topic.
Yes, I hear what you're saying. But like with sex ed, which you mentioned (and I agree with you BTW) schools recognize that sex ed is a sensitive subject, so they allow parents to opt in or out for their kids. You and I might not agree with parents "shielding" their children from what we consider important health information, but I do think it's each parent's' right on such issues. Similarly, the topic of nudity, even in the context of classical art, is a sensitive subject for elementary school children. So I can understand that some parents would not want their children viewing it. I think parents should have a say on these sensitive issues.
I realize a public school can't possibly accommodate every preference/quirk/religious belief, but they do need to offer flexibility on touchy subjects when possible.
but the teacher didn't intend to use nude pictures to teach art. They were included in a boxed set of postcards of works of art that was owned by the school and kept in the school library. I think he reasonably enough assumed that the library contents of the school were reviewed and determined to be appropriate for use as classroom content. If they weren't, that was a flaw in the system, not a firing offense for this individual teacher.
There is a difference between a parent exposing their child to R rated films and an art teacher teaching art which often portrays the nude human body.
We are talking about an elementary art class with 10/11 year old kids. Nude paintings are not typical in this type of setting. I wouldn’t even expect kids to be required to study the colors in a nude painting at an art class at an art museum. Typically they would be looking at paintings like Starry Night, Water Lilies, The Scream, A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, or other similar paintings.
but the teacher didn't intend to use nude pictures to teach art. They were included in a boxed set of postcards of works of art that was owned by the school and kept in the school library. I think he reasonably enough assumed that the library contents of the school were reviewed and determined to be appropriate for use as classroom content. If they weren't, that was a flaw in the system, not a firing offense for this individual teacher.
As a teacher, it is my job to review everything I show in my classroom. It is not the librarians, or anyone else’s, responsibility to determine what is appropriate for the lesson I’m teaching. It doesn’t matter what his intentions were, he was lazy in planning his lesson. This could possibly be an ongoing issue, being flaky and unprepared for class, and the reason why he was fired. Who knows what he could end up showing his students if he’s not reviewing everything first.
As a teacher, it is my job to review everything I show in my classroom. It is not the librarians, or anyone else’s, responsibility to determine what is appropriate for the lesson I’m teaching. It doesn’t matter what his intentions were, he was lazy in planning his lesson. This could possibly be an ongoing issue, being flaky and unprepared for class, and the reason why he was fired. Who knows what he could end up showing his students if he’s not reviewing everything first.
I agree but this is an elementary school. Presumably, 6th grade is the top grade in that school so all other students are younger than an age you say is inappropriate to be showing such paintings to (generally I agree; my thing is I see little to no harm in the fact that these kids saw the paintings anyway but that's another issue than what I'm saying here). So then these nude paintings in this postcard set are not appropriate for this school period, which someone should have noticed sooner, and that person is not this teacher if they were purchased and stored in the library or anywhere except his classroom and not purchased by him personally.
I still agree that the teacher should have prepared better. I do wonder though whether it was a lapse in judgment, maybe he really didn't think it was a big deal for the kids to see these postcards, especially if they were part of a set. He contradicts himself in the article. He is quoted as saying both that he did not know those paintings were in there and also that he went through the set and removed photos he thought were inappropriate. So I'm not sure what really happened based on that account but maybe he either had a lapse in judgment or if he did go through the set, he missed some and maybe just skimmed it.
I read this entire thread and all the links to the news stories. Your family member's child rearing methods have nothing to do with what went on in the Utah classroom. The only connection is nudity. There is a difference between a parent exposing their child to R rated films and an art teacher teaching art which often portrays the nude human body.
You didn't read a thing of what I said before or why I said it, and no amount of you arrogantly stating as such is going to change that. You're coming across as seriously passive aggressive right now. I know you don't think that, but you are. Work on that issue.
Yes, it is, to counter the ignorant comments by people labeling the parents as being "typical Mormons", prudes and in a later post, "mentally ill." Why do you have an issue with me trying to give the parents the benefit of the doubt but not with people making bigoted remarks about their background, knowing nothing about what they're like?
Right on!
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