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Well, their 'public image' takes a terrible hit when prosecutors refuse to acknowledge they convicted the wrong person though?!!
Are you confused?
By refusing a DNA test, they block the evidence that would demonstrate innocence. That blocking certainly isn't a good look, but it's not as damaging as the definitive evidence of a false conviction. And there are plenty of people who don't want to know - the self-professed 'law and order' types who aren't bothered by the disorder of a false conviction so long as they can cling to plausible deniability, which is exactly what is provided by the refusal to allow DNA testing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62
As a adult who votes, when I saw a local case couple years back, when a guy was cleared thru this kind of testing and yet the county DA STILL refused to recognize this and insisted he was guilty, my opinion of him went WAY down, and of course, I didnt vote for him in the next election.
For every one of you, there's someone else who cheers that DA. Why? Because they rationalize that if that person was wrongly convicted, he probably did something else and got away with it, and so - they tell themselves - he belongs behind bars, anyway.
These are the types who carry around a copy of the Constitution and are always railing about how it's 'not being followed', yet they are happy to turn a blind eye to Amendments V, VI and VII when it suits them.
There is and always has been room for error in death penalty cases in our society (as is the case with criminal cases in general). This is why the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, not without any doubt. While an innocent person being put to death (and its not clear that this is what happened here, though it undoubtedly has occurred in this country's history) is tragic, it is not an argument against the death penalty for me, especially if it can't be shown that such is widespread.
Your argument is very much like the one that says we have to endure mass shootings in order to protect 2nd amendment rights.
That may seem well and good until you or a friend or a family member end up on the wrong end of that equation.
Your argument is very much like the one that says we have to endure mass shootings in order to protect 2nd amendment rights.
That may seem well and good until you or a friend or a family member end up on the wrong end of that equation.
No. Its nothing of the sort. Its the reality of our criminal justice system that the burden of proof allows for people who are not guilty to face punishment. Again, its beyond a reasonable doubt, not without any doubt.
Expense. It's a couple hundred bucks NOW.. In 2006 and before.. Much more.
Things won't change until someone is proven innocent based on DNA. I'm not familiar with this case.. Reading briefly on it (I stress, briefly).. 2 marines stating it was his car based on the sound of the broken exhaust.. That.. Would have been very solid evidence back in the day.
My question here.. What are the pieces of evidence to be tested? They mention red underwear, but.. That could have been at the site.. I see no mention or evidence of rape, just the use of the tree limb.. So, why would he have taken his underwear off?
If they are testing DNA on clothing it's more then a few hundred dollars.
I'm interested to know what kind of DNA testing they're doing. Will they be taking the stain from the underwear to try entering it in CODIS? Will they try to directly match to a sample from his daughter or will they use a genealogy database?
I follow a charity organization called DNA Doe Project (DDP). Their focus is identifying the thousands of John and Jane Does in the US. They use autosomal DNA to match the Does DNA to people on GEDmatch Genesis that have done their DNA at sites like Ancestry, FTDNA, 23 and me and My Heritage. It's the same way the golden state killer was found. DNA Doe Project is the one that came up with the idea and found a few experts from a few businesses in the DNA field to pull it all together. Before they got their 1st match, LE was not doing this. It was huge news for people that do genealogy with DNA. Some people were outraged that DDP and law enforcement were using GEDmatch. GEDmatch told us that it was allowed; they're a public database which is why DDP and LE can use it. GEDmatch adjusted their terms of service to spell it out that LE were using their database and if people did not like it, they were free to remove their DNA and family trees. Some people did remove them, then new people started uploading to help LE and DDP. DDP had their 1st case solve a few months before LE started using it for killers.
One of the founders of DDP has been working with LE for years doing Y-DNA work which follows the male line that could and has provided LE with a last name so that they can see if they have someone in mind with that last name.
In some cases they have to have the body exhumed in order to get bone or teeth to extract DNA from. I'm not seeing the price on their FB page but from memory, it starts at about $4,000 to extract the DNA from bone or clothing. The lab then puts it into a readable autosomal file. One huge problem they have had is the DNA is degraded. Some times there is no good usable DNA; they would then have to try again which gets expensive. Technology has gotten better since they started last year. They're more able to work with degraded DNA.
Sometime in 2018 FTDNA started allowing the FBI to upload DNA from rape kits yet FTDNA never told any of us.
So law enforcement has the genealogy site GEDmatch Genesis, the FBI is also allowed to upload DNA from rape kits to FTDNA for the last year.
I believe that the death penalty should be RARELY sought for ordinary murder and should only be available after meeting a higher standard of proof, namely (at minimum) when two of the following three requirements are met:
1. An uncoerced confession from a lucid individual,
2. Incontrovertible physical evidence,
3. Eyewitness testimony from an individual who is NOT a stranger, as such testimony is often horribly flawed.
So?
What exactly is YOUR position?
The one I posted 10 and 11 posts before you asked these.
And I'll add in people who double post. They deserve execution.
I remember the first case mentioned (Cameron Todd Willingham) very well. It was big news where I live. I will also add that DNA evidence is usually destroyed after a person is executed, so it is usually impossible to test after the fact. So there may very well be many more innocent people executed, but we have no way to find out.
None of those 6 that fit the criteria have been proven innocent. Not that I won't say that it's impossible that they were. The last 2 are from 1915. I can give you one case, that of George Stinney, Jr that someone executed was exonerated. That, also, was from 1944. I have ZERO question that it happened prior to the 70's.. Especially in the Jim Crow era in the south.
That's someone writing an article declaring them innocent. Not examples of people proven innocent.
Most of them, I would agree, should not have been executed due to questions. If you want to focus on the Willingham case.. We can start out with one major red flag.. "Jailhouse informant". Why the hell do we allow those? That should be an instant disqualification for a death penalty case, and likely any case.. If prosecution can't build a case without putting someone on the stand who has a MASSIVE reason to say whatever the prosecution wants them to say..
All in all.. That case just has too many holes.. His wife at the time, who stood by him, now claims that he confessed to her just before his execution. Does she have any reason to say that if it wasn't true? Not really.. But, do I trust what she says? Nope.
And that is the reason that capital punishment should not be allowed.
Between putting an innocent person away for life without possibility of parole and executing them, frankly I don't see much of a difference. Either way you've completely ruined that persons life. On the other hand just because that does happen what are you going to do? I wouldn't advocate for capping prison time at five years as being the balance point between potentially punishing the wrong person and the need to have prison times.
Between putting an innocent person away for life without possibility of parole and executing them, frankly I don't see much of a difference. Either way you've completely ruined that persons life. On the other hand just because that does happen what are you going to do? I wouldn't advocate for capping prison time at five years as being the balance point between potentially punishing the wrong person and the need to have prison times.
An innocent person can be released from prison, when they get exonerated. An executed person, can't.
Oopsie, too bad we executed you unjustifiably, but we still love capital punishment anyway.
There was also an article about this in the NYT today. From reading the articles, it sounds as if the evidence was weak, and circumstantial, and that the confession was coerced, and did not show evidence of any knowledge of the crime. I think they're going to find that his DNA was not on her clothing. This could be the first incontrovertible evidence that an innocent man was executed for a crime he didn't commit, in post Jim Crow America.
Were this to be found to be the case, it would be a very powerful argument against the death penalty in the US.
No, it wouldn't be. Most death penalty inmates are absolutely 100% found correctly guilty, like Charles Manson was and Mark Chapman who shot and killed John Lennon. And no convicted murderer has been rushed to execution. Most languish for many decades on death row.
No, it wouldn't be. Most death penalty inmates are absolutely 100% found correctly guilty, like Charles Manson was and Mark Chapman who shot and killed John Lennon. And no convicted murderer has been rushed to execution. Most languish for many decades on death row.
Oh please, those cases are the top 0.001%. When you get to the bottom 50%, it's not nearly so black and white. Over 350 people in prison have been released due to DNA. Generally no DNA tests are even done, if the person has already been released, or worse already been executed. There is no reason not to believe that the numbers for those groups are not just as high.
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