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It can be hard. My son lived in Oakland for a few years and spent most of his free time moving his car around to avoid getting cited. It seems that there was inadequate parking space for residents, let alone the hundreds of cars who parked there to go to their appointments at Kaiser, so he was forced to park in two hour zones and run around moving his car every two hours. He had a very good job and paid his tickets but they amounted to quite a bit of money and it is actually quite easy to see how it would have become an impossible burden for someone with a low paying job.
Just in case anyone is going to jump in and give a lecture on how this whole thing was his fault, please do me a favor and don't go there.
It sounds like I used to live in that neighborhood. It isn't just Kaiser, there are also several mid-rise apartment buildings and few high-rise apartment buildings. And a few blocks away there were plans to build more high-rise apartment buildings, but to provide less than one on-site parking space per unit.
At the time I had a debate with Jade and some other posters about that. If I recall correctly, their claim was that apartments could be cheaper if they provided less parking per unit, and that Millennials did not want cars anyway. I argued that the people would eventually get cars even though they live on bus and BART lines that take them to many work sites, and everyone in the neighborhood would have a lower quality of life when that happened. The city would put up signs making everything around there 2 hours parking Monday-Saturday for anyone without an X parking permit, then sell permits to neighborhood residents. But, there would be so little parking that everyone--including apartment residents--would spill over into other neighborhoods. Of course, it was Oakland--I lost the debate. And of course, as far as I can tell, parking worsened and is continuing to worsen.
I now live elsewhere in the bay area. YAY!
But, the claim that Millennials don't want cars reveals a lack of awareness about age, period, and cohort.
Age effects are when people do something at different ages.
Period effects are when people do something at different years.
Cohort effects are when people who experienced a particular event later do something.
Going to the prom is an age effect. Each generation does it at about the same age in their life course. Voting for a presidential candidate is a period effect--the election is held every four years, and all people, regardless of age, vote in the same year. Graduating college just as the Great Recession hit is a cohort effect; for the rest of those people's lives they will pay the cost and have the memory of struggling right out of college while people just a year or two younger will not. No matter what their ages, the Great Recession cohort will feel the effects (though those effects may change over time).
Why is this important? It means one cannot look at what Millennials say they want or seem to want at age 19 (that's a Millennial--someone born between 1997 and 2019) and then project how many parking spaces to put in an apartment building that (we hope) will stand for 100 years minimum. Not wanting a car is an AGE effect, not a COHORT effect. Most Millenials have no kids. As they age, most will get kids, Are they going to schlep their kids around on the "great-by-west-coast-standards-but-still-pretty-bad" public transportation system? When they divorce (about half of them will) will they manage their split families without a car? Will they forever feel that it is sufficient to use Uber and Lyft and Zipcar for trips to airports, amusement parks, and the wine country? I say "No!" When they get money and get time-stressed they, like most with $, will buy cars. And the parking is going to be HORRIBLE!
So, tow truck companies are gonna be in business for a long long time.
Funny, I'm not trying to get your sympathy, at all. I don't have any problems with parking tickets.
I'm trying to communicate this very real problem, that private towing companies get government contracts that basically allow them to steal people's cars, as a result of a $15 parking violation.
An excerpt from Nickel and Dimed, by Barbara Ehrenreich.
"The "working poor" as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the "working poor" is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else".
Worth pondering, Java, while you judge.
Ah, the Noble Poor. The poor are neither philanthropists, donors, nor benefactors as a result of neglecting their children, the housing they occupy, or for experiencing the logical consequences of their economic situation.
People on the internet are perfect, aren't you aware? They would never accidentally park illegally, nor would they ever, say, fall on a hike or accidentally go off trail and wind up missing for over 2 weeks. They are perfect, no mistakes from them.
Where you park is a conscious act. There is nothing accidental about it.
You do realize that getting parking tickets, parking illegally, and maintaining your vehicle registration is 100% under your control, don't you?
Of course everyone realizes that. But there is also the problem of the Government seizing property in order to pay overdue vehicle registration or parking tickets. I'm surprised at all the free market ideologues and libertarians who don't see how wrong that is.
And the bill does not make it ok to "park illegally", If you park in front of a meter and the meter expires, they can tow your car. If you park too far out in the street they can tow your car. If you park a car anywhere without a license plate on it they can tow your car, if you are blocking traffic they can tow your car, etc, etc.
What they can't do is tow your car if you are legally parked in a residential or non commercial area and you are parked on the street for more than 72 hours, but they can write you a ticket for it. Why is that important? Because if for some reason it's impossible for you to move your car for 72 hours it won't be towed or turn into a pumpkin which is what can happen to an ordinary hard working ethical person if they get unlucky, like my neighbors son did. My 85 year old neighbor allowed his son to park his car in front of his house while he flew to Denver. After his son was gone for four days our resident busybody neighbor called CHP and had them tow the car. I tried to intervene and explain the situation to the cop but his mind was made up, our dear neighbor had taken time/date stamped photos of the car being left there 4 days prior, which gave Officer Friendly adequate proof that the car had indeed violated that most sacred law of all, parking on a mostly empty residential street for more than 3 days, hence it was towed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
Ah, the Noble Poor. The poor are neither philanthropists, donors, nor benefactors as a result of neglecting their children, the housing they occupy, or for experiencing the logical consequences of their economic situation.
This is just so much tripe.
I thought it was incredibly profound. And true. And written by a wealthy successful woman who tried to make it on the salary of a full time walmart employee. And couldn't.
You have to realize, that people who work full time at walmart (or in a housekeeping service, or at a diner) are subsidizing your cheap luxuries.
And it is uncomfortable to look that in the face. That the "working poor" we give very grudging respect to are supporting your wealthy lifestyle. It is because of them, that your life is so much easier and convenient.
But I guess perspective is everything, and you somehow know better than she.
so, if you claim you are poor, that means you can break the law and park anywhere and get a ticket and get a free pass?
That is stupid. The person caused it. it could have been avoided. Now this will give them license to break the law for free.
For the umpteenth time, the thread topic, the measure being discussed, is not about parking tickets. It's about the state towing cars, whose owners have unpaid traffic fines or un-renewed car registration, or cars left for 72 hours without moving, in any location. They're not towed because they parked illegally. They're towed, because their name and license plate came up on a computer as being in arrears, so their cars are targeted. They could be parked in front of their home, but would be towed, because of unpaid fines, or simply because the owner hadn't driven the car in 72 hours. Neighbors have been known to report another neighbor's car that's sat in one place for 3 days. It's a strange aspect of American life.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 06-01-2019 at 11:13 AM..
I know from your prior posts that you resent paying property tax because it benefits other people's children, but that's not what this is about. Nor is it about driving without insurance, or with cancelled insurance. If you read the bill you would know that this bill impacts only two situations in which cops tow cars.
1- unpaid citations, including parking tickets
2- expired registration
Poor people can't always walk or bicycle to get around. I live in Sac County and I occasionally give a lady who lives near me a ride to her job. The bus ride between where she lives and where she works takes one hour and 20 minutes, the distance is 14 miles, she needs to get on the bus at 6:15 to arrive by 7:35am, then she waits 25 minutes to start work. Walking would take 4 hours and 15 minutes, riding a bike would about the same amount of time as the bus ride but since she's in her 60's it's unlikely that she's physically up to that kind of a bike ride twice a day. If she had a car it would take her 20 minutes max to get to work. It's lovely how you feel that the the working poor don't have a right to ride to work in a car, you should be proud
Yes it is also about insurance. When you show up at the impound lot to retrieve your vehicle, you must show PROOF OF INSURANCE or it stays impounded and assessing additional storage fees until covered. Have you ever watched the TV show "Parking Wars"?
I have a friend who works hard, makes about $14 an hour and much of that goes to paying for his 1 kids child support. He has no family and lives in his car. Rents a cheap hotel room every other weekend to have his son.
His car is his home, no license, no Insurance. I've seen it towed and it costs him a small fortune to get it back.
In the meantime he's stranded, basically homeless. Can't go see his son, can't really get to work.
Once a person get's in a hole, it's hell getting out. Paying big fines, towing and court costs just digs that broke person a deeper hole.
So what do you do?
How about reconciling with the mother and creating an intact family????
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The poor are neither philanthropists, donors, nor benefactors as a result of neglecting their children, the housing they occupy, or for experiencing the logical consequences of their economic situation.
