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Different subject - as far as the "Kennedy Curse" for a long time I wrote it off to the usual - They are a very large family, and they tend to have many children, generationally. They are outdoorsy and they engage in somewhat risky behavior. They have served in the military and in war, there are casualties. A curse just seemed crazy.
Before this thread, I thought it was unusual that JFK would want to drive around Dallas with the top down, considering the striated political climate within the Democratic party on the time. I thought he would have had the option of having a bullet proof hard top car. I didn't know until now that they were not available. So it really wasn't risky behavior on his part.
Politics asides, I think there are a lot of parallels between the Kennedy and Bush families. Both are large and tight knit. Both enjoy the outdoors and boating, and sports.
The only horrible event I can think of that struck the Bush family was the tragic death of Pres. George HW Bush and Barbara Bush's daughter Robin. That is it.
The Kennedys have had tragedy after tragedy. An assassination or a murder in a family is rare. But two of them? Then John Jr. and his wife dying in a plane crash? And now this.
I have to admit that something really seems wrong. Something that transcends having a large family.
At this point, I think it's more than just a little bad luck.
Yeah, the problem with the people who airily declare that severely depressed people should just tough it out or in some other way think they can just snap out of it is that THEY are thinking with a clear, rational head, telling someone who cannot think clearly or rationally what they should do.
It's like someone who can walk just fine sauntering by someone with a deformed leg saying, "Gee, why don't you walk faster? I can! It's so easy--just put one foot in front of the other like I do and keep going!"
A friend of mine who was hospitalized numerous times for her depression and underwent ECT a couple of times as well once said, "Depression is being outside on a sunny day, having a pocketful of money--and still wanting to do nothing but kill yourself and end the pain."
Like the person you responded to, I also have a seriously mentally ill brother. Let me lay something out there for you to ruminate over:
Seriously mentally ill people with chemical imbalances often try to self medicate because they do realize that SOMETHING in them needs to be fixed in order to feel better. They also tend to make poor decisions because - well, because they are mentally ill! They often make decisions based on paranoia, fears, mistaken beliefs, delusions, etc. These decisions are often not illegal in and of themselves, and the law clearly states that it's not against the law to be irrational or paranoid yada yada yada. The law generally won't step in unless someone actually breaks the law. Many of these decisions result in traumatic events that further exacerbate the existing mental illness. It's a vicious cycle. Pretty soon they have messed up lives, with substance abuse and terrible life choices further complicating their mental health issues.
Note - I am NOT saying that everyone who abuses substances or makes poor life choices is biologically mentally ill.
There have been many interesting studies linking early regular marijuana use (before the brain is mature) to schizophrenia. Scans and tests reveal actual differences in the brains of schizophrenics who have regularly smoked weed since their teen years, and healthy brains from healthy individuals. But which came first - the chicken or the egg? Did they abuse marijuana BECAUSE they already had jacked up brains, or did the jacked up brains create a desire to smoke weed regularly? Jury's out on that one but personally I believe that the weed exacerbated a condition that might have otherwise lain latent.
That is an excellent point about schizophrenia and weed. And it may explain the increase in young people having mental health issues and the rise of suicides.
I do agree with duke that the doctor's do over prescribe antidepressants medications too easily. I remember one yr. I went to see my primary doctor for allergies or a cold and I was feeling down that day due to some bad things happening that day. My doctor immediately wanted to prescribe antidepressants for me, "just a small dosage". I said no. I knew what I was feeling was normal, after all, I'm not a robot and I'm allowed to feel happy and sad at times. I think in this country people think that everyone should feel happy all the time, if not, they should get a happy pill. And I certainly disagree with that mentality. But there are many people who really do need medication for their mental health. The hard part is trying to figure out which medication is best for which person and the dosage amount as this isn't a perfect science.
Regarding the Kennedy's granddaughter who just committed suicide, I'm wondering if she was on antidepressants at the time. If so, what kind. Most, if not all, antidepressants have negative side effects, which are especially bad for young people. If one is prescribed the wrong antidepressants or the wrong dosage, it can really make one feel worse and at times suicidal. That's why, as someone previously mentioned, there's a black box warning on some of the meds. That's another reason why this whole thing is so tragic, it could have exasperated by her meds or lack thereof; either way, I don't fault her.
Different subject - as far as the "Kennedy Curse" for a long time I wrote it off to the usual - They are a very large family, and they tend to have many children, generationally. They are outdoorsy and they engage in somewhat risky behavior. They have served in the military and in war, there are casualties. A curse just seemed crazy.
Before this thread, I thought it was unusual that JFK would want to drive around Dallas with the top down, considering the striated political climate within the Democratic party on the time. I thought he would have had the option of having a bullet proof hard top car. I didn't know until now that they were not available. So it really wasn't risky behavior on his part.
Politics asides, I think there are a lot of parallels between the Kennedy and Bush families. Both are large and tight knit. Both enjoy the outdoors and boating, and sports.
The only horrible event I can think of that struck the Bush family was the tragic death of Pres. George HW Bush and Barbara Bush's daughter Robin. That is it.
The Kennedys have had tragedy after tragedy. An assassination or a murder in a family is rare. But two of them? Then John Jr. and his wife dying in a plane crash? And now this.
I have to admit that something really seems wrong. Something that transcends having a large family.
At this point, I think it's more than just a little bad luck.
Some of it is that they were high-risk takers. Joe Kennedy, Jr., volunteered for that mission that blew him to smithereens over the English Channel knowing how dangerous it was. Kathleen Kennedy knew that there were severe storms and still made arrangements to fly the day her plane crashed. JFK, Jr. knew he was leaving too late in the day and chose to fly anyway. People who run for office know that they've made themselves targets because people in positions of power make enemies.
Some of it is that they were high-risk takers. Joe Kennedy, Jr., volunteered for that mission that blew him to smithereens over the English Channel knowing how dangerous it was. Kathleen Kennedy knew that there were severe storms and still made arrangements to fly the day her plane crashed. JFK, Jr. knew he was leaving too late in the day and chose to fly anyway. People who run for office know that they've made themselves targets because people in positions of power make enemies.
Could you review the circumstances of that incident for us? How did it happen? He flew too late in the day for what? Weather? Nightfall?
Could you review the circumstances of that incident for us? How did it happen? He flew too late in the day for what? Weather? Nightfall?
There are a couple of other threads about the Kennedys and risk taking, but this is an article that explains some of it.
One of his (JFK, Jr's) favorite hobbies was certainly a dangerous one. “Flying meant more to him than anything," said Christopher Andersen, author of "The Day John Died." "It meant freedom.”
“Here you have one of the most pursued, hunted men in the world," he added. "And ironically, the only place he felt he could be truly free was in the air."
His late mother didn’t want him to fly. “One of the reasons for that was the horrible track record the Kennedys had with flying...."
Could you review the circumstances of that incident for us? How did it happen? He flew too late in the day for what? Weather? Nightfall?
Nightfall. This is what I recall from the time, and it was covered locally because he took off from an airport near where I lived at the time. JFK, Jr. did not have instrument training, and was flying using visual rules.
Flying at dusk, it can become impossible to distinguish the sky from the water. There is no horizon visible from which to orient yourself. I remembered this when I flew to the Bahamas in the early '00s. Looking out the window, it was all one color. You couldn't tell where the water ended and the sky began.
I am not a pilot so I don't know how one works around that, but I remember reading that this may have been a factor, and then I understood what it meant when I saw that situation from a plane myself.
Also recall that Carolyn had told a friend that she was not really comfortable flying with her husband at the controls.
There are a couple of other threads about the Kennedys and risk taking, but this is an article that explains some of it.
One of his (JFK, Jr's) favorite hobbies was certainly a dangerous one. “Flying meant more to him than anything," said Christopher Andersen, author of "The Day John Died." "It meant freedom.”
“Here you have one of the most pursued, hunted men in the world," he added. "And ironically, the only place he felt he could be truly free was in the air."
His late mother didn’t want him to fly. “One of the reasons for that was the horrible track record the Kennedys had with flying...."
I think there is something to the notion that children in wealthy families have to find some risky sport or hobby to compensate for the lack of adversity they experience in life. I know children in wealthy families who have become mountain climbers, race car drivers, speed boat racers, and scuba divers. All of these are dangerous sports and result in casualties.
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