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Meyerland, this will never end, as long as there is human sexual behavior.
It's nuanced. It's not like buying a car or leasing an apartment. Clarity of intention is NOT sexy. Typically, men will continue with sexual behavior until told "no", although sometimes it's women who do that and take the lead. The one witness who stated she was at the party and when she didn't want Brock's advances while they were dancing drunk on the table, she situated herself away from him. She didn't say "no". It's nuanced.
So I've told this story before, but it bears repeating here. Back in the early 1990's the Panhellenic Council (Fraternities and Sororities) at University of Texas got together to lead a campaign against date rape which was appearing epidemic. When they got together, one problem was clear; communication was fuzzy and will remain fuzzy. Women would say no expecting and wanting men to keep pressing, they wanted to feel desired and not look easy. Men were confused on when no actually meant no, or no meant stop a moment and then try again.
The men said tell us no clearly, and we'll stop. The women said no, they weren't going to do that.
The game, the tease is all part of the joy of human sexuality. Additionally, in a social setting, they weren't going to say "no" clearly to men groping them a little, because they didn't want to appear shrill or prudish.
And it still continues. The "no" isn't always spoken when the woman means it, and is often spoken when the woman doesn't mean it at all.
And round and round we go, still. The pendulum now, is in the place where many men have given up - and are requiring the women to take all the leads, which I believe isn't natural.
She physically moved away from him, which is a NO. And none of this nonsense has anything to do with forcefully penetrating a woman who is unconscious.
It's really ignorant to think that digital penetration isn't rape.
Fact is, they hold her not responsible, yet if she was driving, they would have held her responsible.
So, which one is it; is a person that is drunk responsible for their actions or not?
He was drunk also, and held responsible for his actions.
It's consistent. If you commit a crime while drunk, you are held responsible for getting drunk and committing the crime. Whether that be public intox, driving, or sexually assaulting people.
If one is a victim while drunk or due to being drunk, there is nothing to hold them responsible for.
If she wasn't drunk it would be oh, she shouldn't have walked outside with him/shouldn't have been talking to a man at all/shouldn't have been at the party. It's always the woman's fault to some people.
Yes, people expect victims to be silent. I was raped for years. I was forced into a marriage I definitely didn't want as a child to my rapist because I wasn't a virgin anymore.
My rapist is black. I am white. From the very first time he would taunt me racially and say things like that to me while he was doing it. For example, he had me pinned down and was putting hickeys all over my neck. He told me he was going to turn me black and taunted how he knew I would think it was a bad thing. Every single time I have been to a therapist or a support group and try to talk about what happened to me I would be silenced. I would be interrupted and the person would start defending the black race. Little over 28 years since the first rape and I have yet to be able to say what happened to me. Instead, society chastises me for complaining about it.
I have C-PTSD. I will never get better. I suffer from panic attacks and nightmares. It wasn't just from my forced husband, either. I was first diagnosed with problems back when I was eight years old. I had a very abusive childhood. The abuse was so extreme that most of my memory has huge blackouts. What I remember is bad enough. I used to try to remember, but I was advised that with as bad as the things I suffered that I remembered that it's best to never remember. There was a reason my brain blacked it out.
The government and society ultimately sided with him. He even ended up with the child he fathered through one of the many rapes. The government said she needed to be in a "black home to preserve her black culture" and I was said to be guilty of "emotional neglect" for not raising her within her "black culture." I was always being harassed while I had her and was trying to raise her on my own. I'd be in a store, for example, when she was little and I'd have black women come up to me telling me I needed to give her to a black home to raise. I was constantly being pressured by my biological, abusive family to give her to my rapist or give her up for adoption.
I never had anyone on my side during the entire thing. My rapist won. I lost. That's just the way it is.
You can't be forced into marriage. You have to sign the marriage license and say yes at the ceremony. You could have said no. You might say circumstances made you feel pressured, but you were not literally forced.
Apparently it’s not clear to these posters. And the reason he is vilified is because he has no remorse and people try to excuse his behavior. Some people clearly think Chanel deserved it and he did nothing wrong. If he could have learned from it and grown as a decent human being, then it’s easier to forgive him his transgressions. His appeal and the argument they brought show he hasn’t grown. He’s just upset with the consequences.
I’ve worked with rape survivors, and I am horrified for ClaraC to have worked with the victims. It’s scary!
Yes it is, as is this talk of 'the dance'. Sure, lots of women say no and then yes a few minutes later. What in hell has that got to do with being unconscious? Nothing.
And yeah, men do notice when partners go limp.
Imagine being a victim and your therapist or advocate or whoever says oh her fingered you
?
Well, I mean clearly he was just trying to PLEASURE YOU, not himself. What is this rape business you are saying?
No one this ignorant about rape should be anywhere near a victim.
You're seeing this so differently than I see it, and it occurs to me it's because I have had friends who are like her.
While you say this behavior puts her in a vulnerable position, I'd say it puts her in a position where she makes everyone around her vulnerable.
Those who have to watch her and make sure she gets home ok (a poster further upthread opined that even the act of leaving a passed out stranger alone should land a man in prison) clean out their cars after she's vomited, seek medical help in case she's actually dying of alcohol poisoning, and in this case, defend themselves against charges of sexual assault because she passed out during a make-out session with a stranger.
One of her choices was illegal. Public intoxication.
I know there are many here who have great empathy for her; I'm sick of having to take care of women like her, and have much less empathy. Women (largely, people don't usually feel compelled to take care of drunk men) who purposely go to parties with the intent of getting black out, maybe pass out, drunk and expect their friends to tag team taking care of them, intervening when they aggressively insist on making bad choices, often to their friend's and stranger's own peril.
This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on this forum.
We had a tag team in college. Primarily to prevent sexual assault and other dangers, not consensual sex. That is why we didn't let girls leave with men from bars.
For all we knew, a drink could have been drugged.
Anyway, you're making this out to be a case of regret and claiming drunk as an excuse which I understand happens, but not in this case.
There is no evidence of consent at any time, except in your mind. Any consent she may have given was gone when she went limp, which yes he would have noticed. Did notice and take full advantage of.
I agree that men do not and should not be asking every 10 seconds do you still want to be having sex? That is a ridiculous thing to say, and doesn't at all pertain to someone who has clearly stopped enjoying what is going on.
There are other ways of communicating during sex than asking for consent over and over. For someone claiming to know all about nuance, you don't seem too savvy about it.
There are sounds of a person enjoying something. There is 'do you like that?' (specific action being taken) and IME men are super hyper aware of a partner NOT enjoying something. They will ask are you ok? Sorry does that hurt? Whatever. You don't like that? (specific action).
Those are lies that SHE told. Any picture could have been recovered from the server. But it wasn't. Because there was no picture. I showed a picture that proved she lied - the picture of the tennis court where it happened. Right out in the open, not behind a dumpster. She was not covered in blood. She had blood on her hand from the IV the docs put in her. There were no pine needles in her. She kept saying how many pine needles were in her hair as if that mattered. She was not isolated. She left the party with Turner of her own free will. No one saw him drag a woman out of the party because he didn't.
You can't be forced into marriage. You have to sign the marriage license and say yes at the ceremony. You could have said no. You might say circumstances made you feel pressured, but you were not literally forced.
Children do not have the same rights as adults. The adults in my life signed the papers. I never signed anything.
What is clear is that she was totally conscious because she was making phone calls and texting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrcollie
How could she tell lies when she wasn't even the one who reported the crime???
And unless you have access to her medical records (and you don't) you can't claim she lied about her condition regarding blood, pine needles, etc.
You don't have her medical records.
The records were put online, When she woke up she reported feeling no pain either she wasn't hurt at all. It's on page 44 in the court documents published by the LA Times. "She does not have any noticeable injures. She also did not feel any pain from the incident. She only had a small bruise from the intravenous needle, which was used on her while she was at the hospital."
Yes mascoma, in the police report by one deputy it does say what you said. He was not involved in the medical exam or testified about it. You need to read further and actually see what the medical staff had to say. The two SART nurses and forensic toxicologist both support the findings of a sexual assault and Brock had her DNA and her blood on his hands. ( the blood was probably from her scratches when she fell.) I’ve read every court document that I could find, and his guilt is very apparent. I’ve never seen her interviews or read her book, because she doesn’t remember the assault. I want facts To decide the case and not just feelings and opinions.
Also, the cop observed Brocks erect penis through his pants while Chanel is on the ground in a fetal position passed out and snoring. That’s literal and observable evidence. Reread the eyewitness testimony and you will see what actually happened. This guy is not innocent. Pick someone who actually is innocent to defend. There are innocent people that are accused of rape, and deserve a good defense. Brock isn’t one of them.
I also encourage you to work with male survivors or rape. There are so many and their needs are not being met in the media, society, or legally.
Last edited by Meyerland; 09-12-2020 at 07:26 AM..
Yes mascoma, in the police report by one deputy it does say what you said. He was not involved in the medical exam or testified about it. You need to read further and actually see what the medical staff had to say. The two SART nurses and forensic toxicologist both support the findings of a sexual assault and Brock had her DNA and her blood on his hands. ( the blood was probably from her scratches when she fell.) I’ve read every court document that I could find, and his guilt is very apparent. I’ve never seen her interviews or read her book, because she doesn’t remember the assault. I want facts To decide the case and not just feelings and opinions.
Also, the cop observed Brocks erect penis through his pants while Chanel is on the ground in a fetal position passed out and snoring. That’s literal and observable evidence. Reread the eyewitness testimony and you will see what actually happened. This guy is not innocent. Pick someone who actually is innocent to defend. There are innocent people that are accused of rape, and deserve a good defense. Brock isn’t one of them.
I also encourage you to work with male survivors or rape. There are so many and their needs are not being met in the media, society, or legally.
There was no blood on Turner. Her DNA was on him because they were engaging in foreplay that she consented to. DNA also shows that too - didn't find Turners DNA on her underwear which shows that she took her own underwear off.
His pants were ON. More proof that no rape occurred. But now just getting an erection means a guy is a rapist. That makes pretty much 100% of the male population rapists. That shows how far rape hysteria has gone.
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