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Bars invite people to drink and drive. The only reason we haven't shut them all down is because drinkers like the bars.
I'm so tired of hearing about senseless deaths like this, while American bars continue to serve drinks to patrons who long ago reached their capacity.
Some states have "Bar" laws that provide if a bar provides alcohol to a customer who is known to be drunk, that may (or will) make the bar also liable for any injury caused by that patron as a result of him/her being drunk. It's hard to prove, of course. Bartenders and waiters serve drinks often to people just sitting there. But I've heard of cases where a patron has sat at the bar for hours being served drinks by the bartender, to an obviously drunk patron, who then leaves and gets in an accident. The bar owner was shown to have known the patron was drunk.
You'll see this in movies sometimes, where the bartender refuses to give an obviously drunk patron another drink. But those clubs where a lot of people are in the place dancing and such...there's no way to tell who is drunk or not.
Does drinking cause a person to drive fast? I don't know about that. Maybe lessens inhibitions, so if a person is inclined to drive fast, they'll do it after drinking?
Does drinking cause a person to drive fast? I don't know about that. Maybe lessens inhibitions, so if a person is inclined to drive fast, they'll do it after drinking?
That's the thing with alot of drugs and alcohol. They don't necessarily manufacture thought and/or behavior. This women probably had a lead foot and/or always in a hurry among other things.
Setting aside the driving the substance shouldn't be blamed or held as responsible as the user.
Not proud, just stating a fact. You seem upset that some can handle drinking and driving, so you're resorting to an attempt to insult.
If you feel insulted then you probably know how stupid it is to drink and drive. The fact is nobody should drunk drive. You are bragging that you did it because you think you have some special skill. You don't. You either think you did or didn't care.
That's the thing with alot of drugs and alcohol. They don't necessarily manufacture thought and/or behavior. This women probably had a lead foot and/or always in a hurry among other things.
Setting aside the driving the substance shouldn't be blamed or held as responsible as the user.
Whether the substance is held responsible depends on what substance happens to be involved...if its narcotics, they go after the doctor or drug dealer aggressively, this sometimes even leads to new or tougher laws on the substance...but if its alcohol, it gets a free pass and just chalked up to another accident.
I think this is because alcohol, (even though its 1000X more dangerous than any narcotic), is fairly popular in society, If Oxycodone or other some other narcotic was as popular, it would get the same treatment.
If you feel insulted then you probably know how stupid it is to drink and drive. The fact is nobody should drunk drive. You are bragging that you did it because you think you have some special skill. You don't. You either think you did or didn't care.
Not insulted at all, I pointed out your ATTEMPT to insult. Reading is fundamental.
BTW, yes, drunk driving was my superpower.
Do you know how many people are driving around intoxicated without hurting anybody? Plenty.
I suppose the cost of mass transit over a nation as large as ours with our population is a lot of the problem, and that we haven't prioritized mass transit except in some large progressive cities. But that's no excuse for anyone. Our rural towns, there's just no way mass transit would be anything but a money drain, it's enough of one in the big cities, I don't think it's profitable in any city, that's my understanding of the issue. I know the CTA well in Chicago, it runs on a huge deficit every year. This is a small rural town and the police station is enough miles away from this bar I don't even know if they police it at all at 2 am. (Since I'm never out and about at that time.) But I doubt it. I think everyone is pretending the issue doesn't exist here.
You're right, this is a small town, no mass transit. Back when I lived there 15 years ago, there was a small bus that ran during the day, the Burlink but it doesn't run at 9pm.
The cops in the town are out at all hours but even for a small town, there is a lot to cover. It's referred to as Pemberton township in one section which is not the town of Pemberton next door. There's Browns mills section where the accident happened, then country lakes, presidential lakes and one more I can't recall. The Pemberton township police patrol them all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anononcty
That's the thing with alot of drugs and alcohol. They don't necessarily manufacture thought and/or behavior. This women probably had a lead foot and/or always in a hurry among other things.
Setting aside the driving the substance shouldn't be blamed or held as responsible as the user.
She was most likely at the local bar down the street. Most of the street where the bar is is like a country road in most places of it.
The drunk woman was a mile from her house. She had 2 more traffic lights to drive through, then a left at the next one. Those traffic lights are close to where she crashed, she's crazy to be doing 90 on that part of the road. She had just driven through a light before hitting the girl. Since she was going 90, she either blew a yellow/red light or managed to get a green light. Rancocas Lane isn't far from the light. Where they hit is actually a pretty well lit area, it's a main section of town, the lake on the right of the road is a big thing there. They hold water festivals, or did when I lived there. It's well lit which is not true for the rest of the town.
One question I have is what kind of drivers license did the 17 year old girl have? This happened December 16, at 9:15pm, she wouldn't be 18 until April of 2022 so she was a fairly new driver unless she was one of a small group of teens who get it at 16. NJ is very hard on new drivers, they have "Cinderella laws."
Looks like NJ changed the driving laws since mine started driving. She would have her learners permit where she has to have someone in her family with at least 3 years experience in the passenger seat for 6 months. After she passes her driving test, she can drive alone from 5am until 11pm. It used to be when the sun went down, had it still been, then she should not have been driving unless she had a special license/reason like school or work.
I'm not trying to place blame on the teen driver. The drunk woman was obviously flying and flying high. It's not specified what was in her system and how much, the charge she got is for alcohol and drugs.
It seems like the reason it's in the news in the last week is because she finally went to court. It's interesting that the judge ordered that she not have contact with the victims family, sounds like they know each other which wouldn't surprise me since it's not a "big town."
...announced that a 54-year-old Pemberton Township woman has been charged with driving while impaired and causing the death of a teenage motorist late last year during a head-on collision that occurred after she left a Browns Mills bar.
...charged with Reckless Manslaughter (First Degree) and Vehicular Homicide (Second Degree). During a first appearance in Superior Court Jan. 20, the Hon. Terrence R. Cook, P.J.Cr., ordered her not to have any contact with the victim’s family. The case will now be prepared for presentation to a grand jury for possible indictment.
The investigation began Dec. 16 after officers from the Pemberton Township Police Department were dispatched to the area of Lakehurst Road and Rancocas Lane for a report of a motor vehicle accident at approximately 9:15 p.m.
was issued multiple traffic citations, including Operating Under the Influence of Alcohol or Drugs.
<I thought most drunk drivers tended to drive slow and sloppy>
Wherever on earth did you get that idea...??
Sometimes they do. Once 36 or so years ago, my bff and I were driving home from a club after 2am. We were on a road with 2 lanes each way and 45 or so speed limit. She was very drunk (it really wasn’t the huge crime it is now back then) driving like 20mph! There were two cops parked talking at a gas station down the street and I’m pleading with her to go faster so we don’t look suspicious. She’s drunkenly going “Noooo, I’m driving sloooow, you have to drive slooooow in front of cops”. They didn’t stop us though!
It’s really a miracle I lived through my teens and 20’s
Sometimes they do. Once 36 or so years ago, my bff and I were driving home from a club after 2am. We were on a road with 2 lanes each way and 45 or so speed limit. She was very drunk (it really wasn’t the huge crime it is now back then) driving like 20mph! There were two cops parked talking at a gas station down the street and I’m pleading with her to go faster so we don’t look suspicious. She’s drunkenly going “Noooo, I’m driving sloooow, you have to drive slooooow in front of cops”. They didn’t stop us though!
It’s really a miracle I lived through my teens and 20’s
I may have posted this in another thread by now, but when i was in my late teens, I was driving a friend home after a party, I was driving and buzzed pretty good...its like 2 or 3am, cop pulls us over and he realizes I am 'under the influence'...
So he instructs both of us to walk home. Thankfully we lived fairly close. The cop told me to park the car in a nearby church lot, and if he went by later that night and saw it was gone, he was coming to my house to give me a citation. Needless to say we both walked home and went to bed, I retrieved the car the next day.
Im sure some cops still do these things today, but not many! However what that cop did with us...it was the right thing to do and he knew it.(we learned our lesson)
I may have posted this in another thread by now, but when i was in my late teens, I was driving a friend home after a party, I was driving and buzzed pretty good...its like 2 or 3am, cop pulls us over and he realizes I am 'under the influence'...
So he instructs both of us to walk home. Thankfully we lived fairly close. The cop told me to park the car in a nearby church lot, and if he went by later that night and saw it was gone, he was coming to my house to give me a citation. Needless to say we both walked home and went to bed, I retrieved the car the next day.
Im sure some cops still do these things today, but not many! However what that cop did with us...it was the right thing to do and he knew it.(we learned our lesson)
Yeah, back then, driving drunk was not like it is today, especially if you were driving locally.
I can so see a cop telling you to park it and that they would be checking on the car to make sure it stayed there, if not, they were coming to get you.
I got pulled over when I was younger in the next town over from my work town which was 10 miles from home. They always ask where are you going, this wasn't on my way home, told him stopping at so and so for food after work. The cop pulled me over because I went to the right too soon to hit a jug handle but it was on the shoulder, by maybe 20 feet.
He got me out of the car, walking the line. I passed. I asked if he wanted me to do anything else like recite/sing Blondie's "Rapture," he said no, so I went on my way to Trenton which was an hour away. I believe that night, I'm not sure how I even got home. I swore if I did make it home ok, I would never drink and drive again. I didn't get into an accident or get pulled over some how, made it home, never drank and drove again. My son was about 3 so it was in the 80's. I think I stopped going down there to dance.
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