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I see the drunks near me more than often enough. They are easy to spot because they can't quite keep between the lines, and I can tell exactly when their brains kick back in gear and they self-correct, then lose concentration again a few seconds or minute later. They can't maintain good driving, although I'm sure as they think it's an art and they're gifted; they believe they are driving perfectly and outsmarting the rest of us.
Yeah, back then, driving drunk was not like it is today, especially if you were driving locally.
I can so see a cop telling you to park it and that they would be checking on the car to make sure it stayed there, if not, they were coming to get you.
I got pulled over when I was younger in the next town over from my work town which was 10 miles from home. They always ask where are you going, this wasn't on my way home, told him stopping at so and so for food after work. The cop pulled me over because I went to the right too soon to hit a jug handle but it was on the shoulder, by maybe 20 feet.
He got me out of the car, walking the line. I passed. I asked if he wanted me to do anything else like recite/sing Blondie's "Rapture," he said no, so I went on my way to Trenton which was an hour away. I believe that night, I'm not sure how I even got home. I swore if I did make it home ok, I would never drink and drive again. I didn't get into an accident or get pulled over some how, made it home, never drank and drove again. My son was about 3 so it was in the 80's. I think I stopped going down there to dance.
My incident happened in 1992/93.
Ive also had quite a few times when I somehow drove home, but I had NO IDEA how I did it! Some of the times, it was pretty far distance. Im not sure what that can be attributed to, its definitely not luck.
I dont think its too far of a stretch to suggest that SOME people may be able to learn how to or acclimate to driving impaired...Ive seen more than a few people like this. Ultimately, we are all different, and we all have different abilities/brain functions. It would be interesting to see science look into this, (people that can apparently acclimate to driving impaired) and see if there are legitimate mental differences.
Bars invite people to drink and drive. The only reason we haven't shut them all down is because drinkers like the bars.
I'm so tired of hearing about senseless deaths like this, while American bars continue to serve drinks to patrons who long ago reached their capacity.
There is a cause of action in New Jersey and most states in civil court that is generally statutory in nature. States can and often do enact what are known as "Dram Shop Laws". The laws provide that in some specific circumstances that a bar can be held responsible for an accident if:
1. It serves someone who was visibly intoxicated;
2. It serves someone who is under 21 years of age;
I don't think you can let bars completely off the hook on the "personal responsibility" thing that has become such a popular refrain in some corners of society today. Bars make a profit serving what is really a dangerous drug that causes some people to lose their faculties. I think the best approach is what New Jersey and some states do. The impose specific restrictions on bars and hold them accountable when they do not uphold those restrictions. If someone is slurring their speech and stumbling around the bar they should not be given additional alcohol. If someone does not have ID or does not look clearly as though they are older than 21, they should not be served alcohol. Nor, does a bar have any business hiring employees who cannot accomplish these tasks.
However, if the bar is doing its best to prevent such people from being served alcohol it should not be held accountable. Its a case by case thing.
There is a cause of action in New Jersey and most states in civil court that is generally statutory in nature. States can and often do enact what are known as "Dram Shop Laws". The laws provide that in some specific circumstances that a bar can be held responsible for an accident if:
1. It serves someone who was visibly intoxicated;
2. It serves someone who is under 21 years of age;
I don't think you can let bars completely off the hook on the "personal responsibility" thing that has become such a popular refrain in some corners of society today. Bars make a profit serving what is really a dangerous drug that causes some people to lose their faculties. I think the best approach is what New Jersey and some states do. The impose specific restrictions on bars and hold them accountable when they do not uphold those restrictions. If someone is slurring their speech and stumbling around the bar they should not be given additional alcohol. If someone does not have ID or does not look clearly as though they are older than 21, they should not be served alcohol. Nor, does a bar have any business hiring employees who cannot accomplish these tasks.
However, if the bar is doing its best to prevent such people from being served alcohol it should not be held accountable. Its a case by case thing.
How is the bar to know whether that person is driving?
I thought most drunk drivers tended to drive slow and sloppy.
As a lifelong partier that grew up in the times of Burt Reynolds drinking and driving and all the fun of the 70's and 80's I can assure you that a TON of people drive buzzed and drunk every day without issue. TONS! Not me of course. Anyway, there are people that get very mellow and just drive cautiously when they have had a few and just get home and are very alert. There are some idiots that do whatever and are the problem. Just like anything there are people that have no issues and some should never even drink!
Sure the media and rightfully so, go nuts on drunk drivers, but some people drive with a beer in hand for over 50 years and never even have a near miss and probably drive better than many. Just the facts.
How is the bar to know whether that person is driving?
If she was at the bar I think she was, which is 3 miles from her house, they knew her there. You see the same people there regularly. Some outside smoking. I'm not the bar type.
There is or was a WaWa near the bar, you see a lot of locals going there unlike the WaWa's by us that get highway traffic. Even the one by me gets 322 traffic. The one by you has the pike. I don't think I ever see the same people in either unless they work there lol
Now heritages by the police station I do see some of the same people when I run there for my daughter.
Its unimportant. They should presume all patrons are driving. There's no excuse for serving someone under 21, or someone who is intoxicated
What is the allowed threshold for intoxication for someone not driving? You can't just have it be vague and expect bartenders to figure it out. There is no legal standard for too intoxicated. Why can't I be drunk in a club if I'm not driving? What if I just have my boyfriend who is not drunk get my drinks? I think you are expecting too much from them.
What is the allowed threshold for intoxication for someone not driving? You can't just have it be vague and expect bartenders to figure it out. There is no legal standard for too intoxicated. Why can't I be drunk in a club if I'm not driving? What if I just have my boyfriend who is not drunk get my drinks? I think you are expecting too much from them.
The standard is whether the person exhibited signs of being intoxicated or was under 21.
For example, if you could show that someone was slurring their speech or stumbling around the bar those would be signs of intoxication. Such a person should not be served alcohol. Another would be serving someone more than three drinks in an hour. A trained server should understand that this would result in a blood alcohol level in excess of .08% which is generally the standard for driving while intoxicated.
It is perfectly appropriate to put some of the burden of preventing intoxicated driving on bars. They make a profit serving alcohol. They should have to bear some of the responsibility of damages if they serve those who are intoxicated and those people cause harm. I am not terribly sympathetic to bars because I have observed the way that servers and bar tenders push customers to drink more. Now that I am older, when I drink I tend to drink at home instead of at a bar.
Forty three out of fifty states have chosen to enact some type of dram shop law. Some are more aggressive than others.
It's not always so clear cut though.
I was waitressing for a few months when my kids were young just to have something to do and to make a little money for our vacations.
I had a big party, table of 10-14, don't remember how many.
They get up and leave at closing time. I go over to pick up my tip, and there's a huge pile of vomit in the middle of the table. Now I don't know which one did it, and I have no idea which ones were drunk, they were all loud and rowdy. They were passing drinks back and forth, who knows who drank what, compared to who ordered what. If it was ordered, I served it.
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Anyway, there are people that get very mellow and just drive cautiously when they have had a few and just get home and are very alert. There are some idiots that do whatever and are the problem. Just like anything there are people that have no issues and some should never even drink!
