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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 2 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee
Yeah, yeah ... drug usage is perfectly acceptable because it isn't specified in the Honor Code.
Did I say it was "perfectly acceptable"?
It's not one of the 4 big sins, according to them, that's for sure. And it's common. Both legal and illegal mood altering substances while off-duty.
(Now I won't be able to get that bawdy song off my mind, "What do you do with a drunken sailor . . . early in the morning". Not that this is just a military problem with only sailors, the subject of the song. It's common in the military in general, in the young).
No, they're not. Transgressions at the service academies with penalties up to and including expulsion are as old as the academies themselves.
The Eggnog Riot (1826) resulted in 20 courts-martial of cadets: The Whiskey-Fueled Riot That Forged West Point
In the 19th century, the vaunted school was more ‘Animal House’ than military academy https://warisboring.com/the-whiskey-...ed-west-point/
These are just samplings. It's nothing new. The days of yore weren't less populated by the usual ratio of attackers and cheaters and drug users than today.
I think one of the big differences is once upon a time you could screw up, take the punishment, learn from it, and move on. Today however, everything has to be a career ending offense. No mistakes allowed. Perfection is the minimum with steady improvement from there. Like so many folks on this threat want to see heads on a platter even before an investigation has been done.
There is a process that will be followed for these cadets. The cadets who sit on honor boards take that task seriously. My youngest has been tasked with investigating honor violations and has had to vote to remove a fellow cadet from the Academy. That's the cadet board; they can only investigate and recommend. The recommendation goes up from them through the chain of command for an official decision.
I think one of the big differences is once upon a time you could screw up, take the punishment, learn from it, and move on. Today however, everything has to be a career ending offense. No mistakes allowed. Perfection is the minimum with steady improvement from there. Like so many folks on this threat want to see heads on a platter even before an investigation has been done.
There is a process that will be followed for these cadets. The cadets who sit on honor boards take that task seriously. My youngest has been tasked with investigating honor violations and has had to vote to remove a fellow cadet from the Academy. That's the cadet board; they can only investigate and recommend. The recommendation goes up from them through the chain of command for an official decision.
While I'm all about investigating, I'd be stunned if any investigation made things less bad for folks involved. Absent there being evidence that someone forced the cadets to take the cocaine at gunpoint when they otherwise did not want to do so, I don't see how this doesn't end in one way for the cadets.
And perfection is far from the standard. There are a whole lot of lesser misconduct charges that will not generally result in expulsion--or worse--from a service academy. Granted, a decision on expulsion still has to be made. But, if the academy keeps with the military's zero tolerance policy for illicit drugs specifically, there is only one real recourse, which is why I think you see some of the comments that you do in this thread.
The honor code at West Point is "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do."
Same honor code as Texas A&M Cadets, as far back as the 80's.
No mention of wild shenanigans and substance abuse while on leave from base in their honor code.
I do give them credit for performing CPR on their fellow cadets - working together to save their lives. That's a part of the military behavior, for sure. Don't just skitter away when your buddies are in trouble.
The military is NOT known, especially the young military members, for being casper milquetoasts spending their off hours in the library.
The military is the military. Most of them like wild horses in their youths.
Prayers they all recover.
That's a creed that these cadets are supposed to live by; it is not the set of rules that govern the cadets' behavior in this or other similar cases. West Point cadets, like other military service members, are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice and other federal law, to include other federal laws criminalizing the use, sale, etc., of certain drugs. These cadets easily broke at least several laws that they are bound by military and other policy to follow.
They say cocaine is making a comeback or is currently in style. But the cadets and others apparently learned or know nothing about the cocaine wave of the 1970s & 80s.. I know they thought they'd never od but the military is tough on drugs and will use random drug testing at will especially when not deployed. Yes drug dealer is an evil criminal but the user who wanted the drugs not angels either.
Hopefully all recover and actually learned their lesson the hardway. If not expelled they have a lot of extra duty and assignments coming up when their classmates are done for the day.
They will almost certainly be expelled. Recruits are different today. There was a couple of dozen cadets sitting separately when we went to Paris Island for my nephews marine graduation. I asked who they were abs was told they are cadets who weren’t being allowed to graduate for a variety of reasons.
One recruit violated a rule that weekend by leaving the base on parents weekend (leading up to graduation) for dinner with his family, despite them telling us repeatedly it was against the rules. He even wore his fatigues to dinner, another violation. A veteran there happened to see him at Denny’s and called the base. No graduation for him. He ruined all those weeks of basic training to go to Denny’s with his family. His family knew the rules too, they were pounded into us.
I don't think so. Lots of extremely intelligent, academically gifted students make poor choices.
If these were students at Yale or Duke or Harvard or Stanford we wouldn't be so bewildered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
While I'm all about investigating, I'd be stunned if any investigation made things less bad for folks involved. Absent there being evidence that someone forced the cadets to take the cocaine at gunpoint when they otherwise did not want to do so, I don't see how this doesn't end in one way for the cadets.
And perfection is far from the standard. There are a whole lot of lesser misconduct charges that will not generally result in expulsion--or worse--from a service academy. Granted, a decision on expulsion still has to be made. But, if the academy keeps with the military's zero tolerance policy for illicit drugs specifically, there is only one real recourse, which is why I think you see some of the comments that you do in this thread.
Yeah, I agree...it will be more interesting to see what happens to the cadets that were exposed rendering assistance. In my mind, that's what the investigating is really for. What degree of complicity or participation did they share? It could well be that they were shocked to walk down the stairs to their classmates OD'd on the floor. It could also be that they were simply waiting their turn but got lucky.
But of course these were not just military personnel but cadets destined to be part of the regular officer corps. With Cold War II kicking off maybe they didn't want to be front line Lieutenants if a world war breaks out
There are much easier ways to quit a military service academy than testing positive for cocaine. They're free to resign at any time. The only catch is that after entering their second year if they resign they'll either have to repay the government for their tuition or serve an enlistment in the military. I doubt the potential of another war drove them to snort cocaine. After all we were at war in Afghanistan and Iraq since before these cadets were born. War fighting is a part of the culture at West Point and they don't let cadets forget it. Cadets are subject to periodic drug testing as are all members of the military. The human body metabolizes cocaine fairly quickly. It may be undetectable in a blood or urine test within 2-3 days after use. Like many recreational drug users they likely hedged a bet that they wouldn't get caught. The wild card they weren't expecting was the fentanyl.
Maybe it’s time to rethink how military academy applicants are screened prior to admission. One of my regrets is that I didn’t work hard enough in high school to get into a service academy. I was a Sea Cadet and had the opportunity but I was too busy having fun to study hard in school. These miscreants blew an amazing opportunity for an education and belong to the greatest Army in the world. They'll get zero sympathy from me.
Last edited by irishcopper; 03-14-2022 at 10:55 AM..
The Eggnog Riot (1826) resulted in 20 courts-martial of cadets: The Whiskey-Fueled Riot That Forged West Point
In the 19th century, the vaunted school was more ‘Animal House’ than military academy https://warisboring.com/the-whiskey-...ed-west-point/
These are just samplings. It's nothing new. The days of yore weren't less populated by the usual ratio of attackers and cheaters and drug users than today.
I was talking about recruits to basic training, not the academies. My great-nephew told us he was dissapointed because he felt many of his fellow recruits had a bad attitude and didn't seem to take the idea of duty seriously.
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