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I suppose Johns Hopkins School of Medicine got it all wrong, someone better advise them.
Now, the question is who do we believe. I believe there are many many medical mistakes and how many deaths -- will anyone know the REAL number.
Again who authors all this info and how much do they get paid...I factor it all in for my own conclusions. And then there is the reader's position on the medical world in general.
Jamin, you know that the “medical establishment supporters” in this forum will always say John Hopkins is wrong, the CDC is wrong, the Mayo Clinic is wrong etc etc.etc
Look at the thread on cipro. Didnt matter what the FDA said about the drug, the “ medical experts” here will defend anything the medical establishment does.
Jamin, you know that the “medical establishment supporters” in this forum will always say John Hopkins is wrong, the CDC is wrong, the Mayo Clinic is wrong etc etc.etc
Look at the thread on cipro. Didnt matter what the FDA said about the drug, the “ medical experts” here will defend anything the medical establishment does.
Yes, truly amazing. The drugs and surgeries can do no harm.
It puts the more likely rate at a little over 25,000....still not good and in need of improvement, but certainly better than the more alarming numbers "extrapolated" in the original study.
It puts the more likely rate at a little over 25,000....still not good and in need of improvement, but certainly better than the more alarming numbers "extrapolated" in the original study.
Making up high numbers for the sake of sensationalism does nothing to reduce the number of medical errors.
What we need to know is whether mistakes could be prevented and what systemic factors contribute to them.
From your link:
"First, the estimate fails the plausibility test. Of around 2.5M deaths in the US each year, approximately 700,000 occur in hospital.[2] We – and many clinicians and researchers - find it very hard to believe that one in 10 of all US deaths, or a third of inpatient deaths (the 251,454 estimated by Makary and Daniel) result from 'medical error'."
Isn't it amazing how a study from Johns Hopkins is summarily dismissed outright? Yet if they had published a study saying all Americans must take vaccines .. well you know how much it would be championed, and oh how RIGHT JH would be.
It's all about pushing the drugs. Because drugs NEVER harm anyone, and doctors never make mistakes. /eyeroll/
I spoke to a bunch of nurses this weekend, separately, and 2 said flat out that if you take 1 med, you are going to be put on a 2nd to deal with side effects .. and then possibly another to deal with additional side effects. Both of them said this, completely unprompted, and one was talking about psych meds, and the other about cancer treatments. They know what's going on.
And apparently JH knows what is going on too. Amazing, stunningly amazing how those that worship at the alter of big pharma, STILL can't even accept a publication from a world-renowned organization because it's results don't fit their narrow little view. It's a mental sickness. Or they are paid. /shrug/
Isn't it amazing how a study from Johns Hopkins is summarily dismissed outright? Yet if they had published a study saying all Americans must take vaccines .. well you know how much it would be championed, and oh how RIGHT JH would be.
It's all about pushing the drugs. Because drugs NEVER harm anyone, and doctors never make mistakes. /eyeroll/
I spoke to a bunch of nurses this weekend, separately, and 2 said flat out that if you take 1 med, you are going to be put on a 2nd to deal with side effects .. and then possibly another to deal with additional side effects. Both of them said this, completely unprompted, and one was talking about psych meds, and the other about cancer treatments. They know what's going on.
And apparently JH knows what is going on too. Amazing, stunningly amazing how those that worship at the alter of big pharma, STILL can't even accept a publication from a world-renowned organization because it's results don't fit their narrow little view. It's a mental sickness. Or they are paid. /shrug/
I am not the only one who disagrees with that "study".
"There are five major flaws with the Makary/Daniel paper:
1. Improper definition,
2. Data inconsistency and tabulation of 'medical errors,'
3. Extrapolation error,
4. Misinformation regarding death certificates, and
5. Inappropriate recommendations for further research."
"The widely publicized BMJ article claiming that medical error is the third-leading cause of death in the U.S. is badly flawed and should be retracted."
"Whenever you see an estimate of how many deaths are 'deaths by medicine,' it’s very helpful to compare that estimate with what we know to assess its plausibility. As I mentioned above, According to the CDC, of the 2.6 million deaths that occur every year in the U.S., 715,000 occur in hospitals, which means that, if Makary’s estimates are correct, 35% of all hospital deaths are due to medical errors. But the plausibility of Makary’s estimate is worse than that. Remember that the upper estimate used by Makary and Daniels is 400,000 inpatient deaths due to medical error. That’s 56%—yes, 56%—of all inpatient deaths? Seriously? It’s just not anywhere near plausible that one-third to over one-half of all inpatient deaths in the US are due to medical error. It just isn’t."
The criticism of Makary and Daniels extends outside the US:
"A fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences, the Academy of Medical Sciences, and the Royal College of Physicians, Mary Dixon-Woods is Director of THIS Institute and RAND Professor of Health Services Research in the Department of Public Health and Primary Care at the University of Cambridge and Professorial Fellow at Homerton College. She is a Wellcome Trust Investigator and an NIHR Senior Investigator."
"Scientist, Evaluative Clinical Sciences, Veterans & Community Research Program, Sunnybrook Research Institute
Director, Centre for Quality Improvement & Patient Safety, University of Toronto
Vice-chair, quality and innovation, department of medicine, U of T
Full professor, department of medicine, U of T
Adjunct faculty, Institute of Health Policy, Management and Evaluation, U of T
Staff physician, general internal medicine, Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre
Editor-in-chief, British Medical Journal Quality & Safety"
"The response authors said they could agree with the analysis authors on one point: 'They say that 'sound scientific methods, beginning with an assessment of the problem, are critical to approaching any health threat to patients",' the researchers said. 'Sadly, their paper does not exemplify such sound science.'"
When criticism comes from scientists with special expertise in patient safety, who are not even in the US, perhaps Makary's "study" should not be taken seriously.
Yes, truly amazing. The drugs and surgeries can do no harm.
Obviously, they can do harm and when a doctor takes the Hippocratic Oath one of the things he pledges to do is "to first do no harm" to patients.
My experience is most physicians are reluctant to do surgery. The first general surgeon I spoke to about doing acid reflux surgery (which I dearly needed) was extremely reluctant to do it. He willingly shared a host of negative information with me about the general efficacy of the procedure and possible complications.
I have sat in doctor's offices while they carefully went over an Informed Consent form for a medical procedure. Seldom do I recall them in a hurry when they did this. I never felt pressured to sign a consent. The pressure I felt was from a medical condition that needed to be fixed because of the discomfort that I was experiencing.
Medical malpractice does exist and it is a significant problem. However, my personal experience as a personal injury attorney tells me that the number of wrongful deaths from malpractice is not anywhere near 250,000 a year. Approximately 40,000 people die per year in car accidents and I''m always taking on new car wreck cases. I am seldom contacted about medical malpractice cases and I have only been contacted a handful of times over a 34 year legal career about a death that result from alleged malpractice. I don't want to give out a lot of details. I will tell you that the way I am positioned in the community in which I practice that if these cases occurred six times as often as deaths from car wrecks, I would be getting flooded with calls.
Malpractice is a problem. It is not claiming 250,000 lives in the USA per year and it is not the catastrophe that you make it out to be.
Medical malpractice does exist and it is a significant problem. However, my personal experience as a personal injury attorney tells me that the number of wrongful deaths from malpractice is not anywhere near 250,000 a year.
Malpractice is a problem. It is not claiming 250,000 lives in the USA per year and it is not the catastrophe that you make it out to be.
I see the number does not pass the plausibility test with you, either. Hospitals have committees that review deaths and incident reports are generated from errors concerning medications and treatments. If a third of in hospital deaths were due to mistakes, heads would roll.
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