USING ' ' ' apostrophes (Dallas, Huxley: how much, middle school, college)

[Deadmaster200]

Hey guys,

Thought I would chime in. Just in case anyone is interested, those of us in the writing field in some way or another use a resource called the 'Chicago Manual of Style'.

I own a copy and they also have a website that you can set up an account to access the contents for free---if memory serves correct.

According to it, sentences ending in prepositions are more than acceptable---it is now the preferred method.

My pet peeve (even if accepted now): persons. !

[KewGee]

Originally Posted by SepiaZelda

You reminded me of another: I would have went. Stooooooooooooop!

Oh yes, that's a doozie. I actually heard that last night while watching 48 hours. I cringed!!

[KewGee]

Originally Posted by m00se

Grates me even more when I see people who are teaching our children repeatedly say "should of". When did "of" become interchangeable with "have"?

Yes, another .

Here is another that teachers say all the time regarding singular and plural.

There is ONE boy in class who always turns in THEIR homework late. The list just goes on and on.

[loves2read]

Teachers aren't the only ones making that grammatical mistake--you can hear it from the mouths of any tv commentator--host--guest or read it in newspaper/magazine stories---using the plural THEIR instead of HE or SHE is so common after the pronoun ONE or some generic noun like student (A student left THEIR backpack in the room)...the trick to avoiding it is to rephrase the sentence--but most people don't realize it is a mistake, don't care to correct it, and don't think fast enough to make it happen...

[loves2read]

mOOse--no--critiquing poor grammar won't stop them--they aren't reading this thread...I agree that substituting "of" for have is sloppy, but must admit I do it in speech all the time--comes from hearing it used so pervasively...

MOMOF2--ending with a preposition is much more acceptable today in written and spoken usage--my preference would be to rework the sentence to something like: Do we order from this menu? Eliminated the need for OF entirely and does not force the use of WHOM which most people shrink from like it carried the plague.

I never have a problem with use of who/whom and hear those errors all the time --- people were never taught correctly and easily how to choose between them. Children learn the incorrect usage from hearing it so much earlier than they can read or go to school where they probably will have very little grammar instruction and that perhaps from a teacher who does not know which is which anyway...
I feel that WHO/WHOM will become totally WHO in the next decade---and that switch is not as serious a mistake because clarity is not really compromised by switching the two except in very complicated phrasing.

[SepiaZelda]

Originally Posted by Deadmaster200

According to it, sentences ending in prepositions are more than acceptable---it is now the preferred method.

My pet peeve (even if accepted now): persons. !

REALLY! That's good to know.

[SepiaZelda]

Originally Posted by KewGee

Oh yes, that's a doozie. I actually heard that last night while watching 48 hours. I cringed!!

I think it is my ultimate pet peeve. Another one is only in speaking, but I hate it so, so much: pitcher when they mean picture.

[loves2read]

One problem I have noticed for several years which does surprise me is the hugh swell of printed materials--novels, magazine and newspaper articles--where the use of the comma before the word BECAUSE is sactioned---

BECAUSE should NEVER have a comma in front of it in any normal sentence construction--only use a comma in front when BECAUSE is the conjuction in a series of BECAUSEs--for instance:
If you are looking for a new job because you hate your boss, because the drive is terribly long, because it lacks any challange for you, because you are afraid of downsizing, I wish you luck.
But if there is only one BECAUSE--If you are looking for a new job because you hate your boss, I wish you luck.--there is NO NEED for a comma.

BECAUSE is from the subordinating class of conjuctions--subordinating conjunctions are never meant to be separated from the clause they are referring to by a comma because they are considered "weak" or germain to the meaning of the main clause--too important to risk separating or being confused as a parenthetical phrase or non-essential part of the sentence....

If the sentence opens with BECAUSE (Because I hate my boss, I am looking for a new job.) there should be a COMMA when that first part/clause finishes...but not when it is comes in the middle of the sentence...

Normally the policies of grammar mistakes have caused problems by reducing punctuations/extra spaces--but this mistake adds one--I can only put it down to my assumption that most editors now are younger than their predecessors and don't know the rules of grammar and don't check a style book...

In many novel series--like the Dick Francis mysteries which are the ones that come readily to my mind, in the earlier novels edited by different people from the current ones BECAUSE is puctuated correctly--in the newer ones BECAUSE comes with a COMMA before it--the mistake is fairly glaring to someone who knows the difference....
Of course most newer novels have horrible editing--issues of fact and continuity within the book are two factors in addition to simple grammatical mistakes...

[loves2read]

The issue of using incorrect grammar will not be resolved because to correct it when teaching children proper usage requires drill work--and those are the two most hated words in education (unless you are coaching/playing football and other sports).

Rote memorization, worksheets, and other activities are all necessary to ingrain the instantaneous decision/correct answer in choosing between who/whom, it's/its, horse's/horses'--any of the myriad of choices that one is facing when writing or speaking in English. The fact that there are more ESL-foreign born students in today's classrooms along with more students whose parents and teachers use incorrect grammar means that there is even more need for proper grammar/drill work, but there is less time for grammar instruction (and even less enthusiasm) for teaching proper usage.

So, I see the tide of "bad" grammar usage rising into almost a tsunami which will inevitably swamp the pool of "good" grammar in today's written and spoken language....

[KewGee]

Originally Posted by loves2read

Teachers aren't the only ones making that grammatical mistake--you can hear it from the mouths of any tv commentator--host--guest or read it in newspaper/magazine stories---using the plural THEIR instead of HE or SHE is so common after the pronoun ONE or some generic noun like student (A student left THEIR backpack in the room)...the trick to avoiding it is to rephrase the sentence--but most people don't realize it is a mistake, don't care to correct it, and don't think fast enough to make it happen...

Yes, I know teachers aren't the only ones making mistakes. I specifically said that it bothers me the most when it's coming from one who teaches our children.

I hear it all the time on the TV and radio as well. I don't believe they'll ever get the he / she or him / her correct.