Any HOA lawyers out there? (Plano, Keller: houses, neighborhoods, gated community)

[ABbaby]

Our HOA in Plano CC&R's restrict parking on our streets by residents (totally) and visitors max 12 hours.

Our roads are public - we are not a gated community.

In confirmed with City of Plano that streets are public and they in turn stated that Plano Police have jurisdiction/authority over public roads. They will not comment in writing on whether an HOA can or cannot fine for parking.

I don't believe that our HOA has the authority to fine residents for parking on public roads in our neighborhood despite the CC&Rs saying so. (Let's not take into account how we would actually monitor such an issue.) However some members of the HOA want "written proof" that we cannot do so.

Thanks

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by ABbaby

Our HOA in Plano CC&R's restrict parking on our streets by residents (totally) and visitors max 12 hours.

Our roads are public - we are not a gated community.

In confirmed with City of Plano that streets are public and they in turn stated that Plano Police have jurisdiction/authority over public roads. They will not comment in writing on whether an HOA can or cannot fine for parking.

I don't believe that our HOA has the authority to fine residents for parking on public roads in our neighborhood despite the CC&Rs saying so. (Let's not take into account how we would actually monitor such an issue.) However some members of the HOA want "written proof" that we cannot do so.

Thanks

1. You signed the CC&Rs before you moved in - if not they've committed a huge fraud and you should hammer them in court. We both know that didn't happen.

2. HOAs have long been able to have cars towed and add contractually illegal parking fees to dues.

[skids929]

Originally Posted by ABbaby

Our HOA in Plano CC&R's restrict parking on our streets by residents (totally) and visitors max 12 hours.

Our roads are public - we are not a gated community.

In confirmed with City of Plano that streets are public and they in turn stated that Plano Police have jurisdiction/authority over public roads. They will not comment in writing on whether an HOA can or cannot fine for parking.

I don't believe that our HOA has the authority to fine residents for parking on public roads in our neighborhood despite the CC&Rs saying so. (Let's not take into account how we would actually monitor such an issue.) However some members of the HOA want "written proof" that we cannot do so.

Thanks

I think it's awesome they have this rule, bravo to your HOA and Bravo for enforcing it. Thats why your home has a driveway and a garage, use that instead of making the neighborhood look like crap.

[Big G]

I don't know about written proof, but I do know that, a few years back, two neighbors in my HOA (in Plano) got into it about parking on the street. (Ironically, both were on the HOA board at the time.) One was insisting that the CCRs be strictly enforced, one held the position that the HOA had no jurisdiction over the streets.

The management company for the HOA (who does this kind of crap all day long, for a long list of HOAs) informed the board that the CCRs for this subject are legally unenforceable, because the HOA doesn't own the streets.

Based on that, I'm gonna go with the OPs viewpoint.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Big G

I don't know about written proof, but I do know that, a few years back, two neighbors in my HOA (in Plano) got into it about parking on the street. (Ironically, both were on the HOA board at the time.) One was insisting that the CCRs be strictly enforced, one held the position that the HOA had no jurisdiction over the streets.

The management company for the HOA (who does this kind of crap all day long, for a long list of HOAs) informed the board that the CCRs for this subject are legally unenforceable, because the HOA doesn't own the streets.

Based on that, I'm gonna go with the OPs viewpoint.

Well, frankly if that was precisely true HOAs wouldn't have rule breaking cars towed and I assure you they do. Additionally, one of my best friends owns a HOA managements company his position is that if the CCRs prohibit pick-ups, large trucks, certain cars etc. He will tow them.

My guess is CCRs in the case you referenced were not written properly.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Well, frankly if that was precisely true HOAs wouldn't have rule breaking cars towed and I assure you they do. Additionally, one of my best friends owns a HOA managements company his position is that if the CCRs prohibit pick-ups, large trucks, certain cars etc. He will tow them.

My guess is CCRs in the case you referenced were not written properly.

They clearly weren't, since they aren't being enforced.

Here's some previous C-D discussion on this topic.

//www.city-data.com/forum/real-...t-parking.html

Relevant to your friend's stance: What happens if some random guy chooses to park a pickup on a public street in the HOA? It's a city street, so it's perfectly legal (if annoying) for him to park there. He's never agreed to be bound by the CCRs, or even aware of their existence. I would think the management company would come up on the short end of the stick once Mr. Pickup sues them for all the towing fees and associated hassle.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Big G

They clearly weren't, since they aren't being enforced.

Here's some previous C-D discussion on this topic.

//www.city-data.com/forum/real-...t-parking.html

Relevant to your friend's stance: What happens if some random guy chooses to park a pickup on a public street in the HOA? It's a city street, so it's perfectly legal (if annoying) for him to park there. He's never agreed to be bound by the CCRs, or even aware of their existence. I would think the management company would come up on the short end of the stick once Mr. Pickup sues them for all the towing fees and associated hassle.

Within my old neighborhood in Plano they handled work trucks and unknown vehicles like this - the was rule more or less that any vehicle could be parked out front for 24 hours. After 24 hours calls would be made to the homeowners. Failing contact or a valid reason being offered a sticker would be placed on the car's windshield with instructions to move it within 24 more hours. After that the car would be towed and fees assessed to the relevant homeowners if possible. If the car wasn't related to any homeowner it would be towed much sooner.

I lived in that neighborhood for 12 years over that time they might have towed 12/15 cars.

[LQQKOUT]

This is why I no longer live in a HOA- CCR's have the right to tow and enforce their by-laws as stated in the HOA rule. The city in which the HOA is in has rights to the streets in regards to maintain and service them. HOA have way to much power IMO. Good luck to the OP-

[babs7907]

The roads may be "owned" by the city, as is the maintenance of it, but if your HOA CCR rules state that no parking is allowed for over a certain period, then that prevails over the city jurisdiction.

The City of Keller passes a law recently that stated that motorized vehicles over a certain weight limit will now be permitted to be parked on city street, my HOA rules states otherwise, we confirmed with city officials and they said our HOA rules can be enforced!

[skids929]

Thing I notice in alot of neighborhoods in DFW is how narrow the streets can be. Not sure what the definitive subdivision rules and regs are from town to town, I am sure the road width stipulation varies. Point is, narrow roads and parked cars don't mix well. Then again, I have also seen some front entry, even swings that allow so little space to park a visitors car since some houses can have so little frontage. Attitudes toward enforcement should take this into consideration as well, if the neighborhood is zoned really close, and frontage is small (e.g. front entries) enforcement is a good thing IMO.

Overall I think 24 hours is fair, and I think enforcement should be discretionary based on the details of the neighborhood and person violating. If it's a large subdivision and there are areas where people violate alot you gotta whip em into shape and enforce the rule across the board. If it's not a huge problem in the neighborhood overall and happen infrequently, no reason to break stones on it.

The whole HOA argument is a double-edged sword if you ask me..I live in a place without and there are occasions (frequent occasions) I wish we had one for certain homeowners who just REFUSE to get it. An HOA is a nice fall-back for handling of those folks.