Revival of Suburbia (Dallas, Plano, Mesquite: neighborhood, buyers, income)

[bigdaddycool1111]

And I was wondering where our "3:30 pm to 7:30 pm rush-hour" came from...

[MckinneyOwnr]

Originally Posted by jgn2013

I guess the real question is...how can cities like NYC and Chicago, with underwhelming school districts, attract large companies when Dallas cannot? Are companies only relocating here because of costs? Dallas must find a way to compete. Our strong suburbs are great, but I think it ultimately weakens Dallas proper. I doubt the smaller cities would even have HQ's moving in without their close geographical proximity to Dallas. In other words, the Frisco's and Plano's of the world benefit far more from Dallas than the other way around.

I don't know when the last time you've been to Illinois is, but there are a LOT of companies packing up and heading for greener pastures... and a lot of the time, they consider TX. I go there quite a bit, was just there last week, and I've heard/seen it from many people across multiple industries. Dallas is competing VERY well vs Chicago.

I think you're way off regarding the benefits of the suburbs vs Dallas. Plano has become a solid anchor for the northern suburbs, attracting lots of business to the area, Toyota is just the latest. McKinney has Raytheon. You don't have to drive to Dallas to do business anymore, frankly, I don't know anyone in my neighborhood that does. Most of us work from home, work in McKinney, or work in Plano/Frisco.

Combine jobs with better schools, and the suburbs are the area of choice for most families. It's the single people or young people that are most attracted to city centers, and they are not the largest demographic, nor do they have the most money to throw around.

I believe at this point, Dallas should be damn glad that the suburbs are flourishing, because if someone DID have to take a job in Dallas, and uproot their family, most likely they'd only consider a place with suburbs that have a good school system. Without the suburbs providing that, Dallas wouldn't be able to attract very many families.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr

I think you're way off regarding the benefits of the suburbs vs Dallas. Plano has become a solid anchor for the northern suburbs, attracting lots of business to the area, Toyota is just the latest. McKinney has Raytheon. You don't have to drive to Dallas to do business anymore, frankly, I don't know anyone in my neighborhood that does. Most of us work from home, work in McKinney, or work in Plano/Frisco.

And THIS is a huge reason why the whole "suburbia's not sustainable" argument grates on me - because it's not people buying homes in Prosper and driving to downtown Dallas to work and therefore this can't keep up when gas gets to $8/gallon and the apocalypse comes or whatever. Rather, "suburbs", even moreso in metro areas where most of the infrastructure has been developed post WWII, are in and of themselves becoming job centers. It's CHEAPER for a company to buy land/office space away from "downtown", in most situations. Their employees don't have to pay big $ to park nearby if they drive, and can live a short distance away IN THE SUBURBS, in a detached home with a yard if they want.

I'll also note that individual transport ("cars") are also being impacted by technology - hybrids are no longer an oddity but are rapidly approaching or already are "mainstream", and on the streets near my house I've now seen FOUR Tesla Sedans (including one with a vanity plate "NOPUMP").

I get that many people don't like suburbia for many reasons and that there are many cool aspects of the "city" proper that suburbs often lack, but pretending that "suburbia" will suddenly up and collapse is a bit silly.

[Saintmarks]

Kudos to the posts above by MckinneyOwnr and synchronicity. Spot on.

DFW is as much a reason for corporate relos to Plano as the city of Dallas. If there is any argument for a spoke/wheel developmental pattern for the growth of the Metroplex, it is with airport as the hub of the wheel, not downtown. Dallas does have the historic cultural offerings that do bode well for attracting large relocations. But like is stated above, most suburbanites are working outside the core of the city. It is nice to have the cultural amenities a short drive away, but not everyone is dependent on downtown. Not by a long shot.

[Lakewooder]

OK how about addressing the situation that many of the suburbs face: as they age, they are not seen as the places to be. Yes Plano is doing fine but what about others? What is to prevent them from becoming the next Mesquite? I've heard people call Allen "Mesquite North" and some who call Forney "the new Mesquite". I've even seen Frisco called "the new Plano".

You rarely see anyone on this board suggest an older suburb, unless maybe it's Richardson.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

OK how about addressing the situation that many of the suburbs face: as they age, they are not seen as the places to be. Yes Plano is doing fine but what about others? What is to prevent them from becoming the next Mesquite? I've heard people call Allen "Mesquite North" and some who call Forney "the new Mesquite". I've even seen Frisco called "the new Plano".

You rarely see anyone on this board suggest an older suburb, unless maybe it's Richardson.

Well, if you look at other cities, you can see suburbs that have remained desireable destinations for very long periods of time. The North Shore of Chicagoland has been an affluent area for...about a hundred years or so? yes, it used to be the South Shore that was affluent and that changed (post Civil war move of African-Americans to the area), but it's not like Dallas is any stranger to racial issues regarding housing or changing of neighborhoods), but that was...a hundred years ago or so? There are other suburbs of Chicago that I could name with histories stretching back 50+ years that haven't fallen into decay and disrepair, to put it mildly.

I get that Dallas is growing in leaps and bounds and, with limited geographical distinguishing marks (no tops of ridgelines where the wealthy can build mansions with views for miles around), people are drawn to the latest shiny and new, but heck, Plano's not falling into oblivion or anything.

I'd add that rising and falling neighborhoods are hardly limited to suburbs. I've mentioned Chicago and there have certainly been neighborhoods that have become gentrified (which is happening in areas of Dallas as well) and other neighborhoods that, rather than being up-and-coming, have came and went. My anecdotal observation is that, if anything, these changes seem to happen more often and with more dramatic impacts within the large cities than out in the 'burbs. Could be wrong on that, but just saying it's not a suburban-only thing.

I'm not saying the suburbs are All That. Yes, there's a lot of soulless-bigboxmall-SUVoriented-chain-Generica in the 'burbs. But high-density inner-city mixed-use isn't the be-all and end-all, either. And believe it or don't, some suburbs (like hey look, Richardson!) age gracefully and attain their own character and hoopy bits and whatnot.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

OK how about addressing the situation that many of the suburbs face: as they age, they are not seen as the places to be. Yes Plano is doing fine but what about others? What is to prevent them from becoming the next Mesquite? I've heard people call Allen "Mesquite North" and some who call Forney "the new Mesquite". I've even seen Frisco called "the new Plano".

You rarely see anyone on this board suggest an older suburb, unless maybe it's Richardson.

What uninformed moron called Allen "Mesquite North"?

You want an honest answer, its not the suburbs that decayed, it was the spillover from the undesirable areas of Dallas. Mesquite has fared poorly because of it proximity to Pleasant Grove. South Irving and parts of Grand Prarie have because of their proximity to West Dallas and the bad parts of Oak Cliff. Parts of Garland decayed because of their proximity to bad areas of Northeast Dallas. Parts of Farmers Branch did because of their proximity to the Webb Chappel area.

Lancaster, Desoto, and Cedar Hill have a niche market: African American families, that keep them desirable to at least a good section of people.

[Lakewooder]

So you can you blame the decay of Arlington and HEB upon Dallas as well? Someone just mentioned that Mansfield is not the place to be anymore on another thread...

[Lakewooder]

The North Shore of Chicago also has a lot of physical beauty in its favor.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

So you can you blame the decay of Arlington and HEB upon Dallas as well? Someone just mentioned that Mansfield is not the place to be anymore on another thread...

The parts of Arlington that have experienced decay are mainly near the bad areas in Fort Worth.

HEB has little to no decay.