Young Buyers Getting Pushed out of Dallas Home ownership (Arlington: apartment, lease)
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To add to the convo. I am one of those young coast transplants and candidly the main reason I moved here was because I thought I could afford a small sfr home in a good school destrict less than 20 mins from my job in dallas for 200k. Wasnt looking for anything special or undeserved cause at the time of moving that is what I was seeing. The economy and jobs was also desirable but low housing was the main reason. Obviously me finding what I want for 200k is not going to happen unless I want to live in anna or Waxahachie. So for me that has been a huge disappointment.
I had a couple other options but am starting to get settled in here now. However if I would have known I couldnt get what I mentioned before I would have taken a serious look at other places. I think people are paying to much for these homes here today.
Don't know about that. Rick Perry could be elected governor of California tomorrow and I still wouldn't move there, simply because I don't think paying $750K for an old run down 3bed 1 bath condo is worth it, regardless of how many jobs are in the area. Ditto for NY. Everyone I know living there is in an apartment. And that list includes nurses, engineers and one doctor. Again, I wouldn't want to live like that even if I was pulling in the big bucks. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe not you specifically, but some move there for the jobs. I wouldn't do it, nor NY, but some job types can only be found in NY or LA/SF.
To add to the convo. I am one of those young coast transplants and candidly the main reason I moved here was because I thought I could afford a small sfr home in a good school destrict less than 20 mins from my job in dallas for 200k. Wasnt looking for anything special or undeserved cause at the time of moving that is what I was seeing. The economy and jobs was also desirable but low housing was the main reason. Obviously me finding what I want for 200k is not going to happen unless I want to live in anna or Waxahachie. So for me that has been a huge disappointment.
I had a couple other options but am starting to get settled in here now. However if I would have known I couldnt get what I mentioned before I would have taken a serious look at other places. I think people are paying to much for these homes here today.
THIS
People may scoff now but the post above is what I'm telling you. Make Dallas a high cost city like Chicago and watch people stop moving here. And the life blood of any city is always the younger families who need housing and are tired of cramped old apartments in NY/Chicago. The moment that demographic turns away from DFW then we are in trouble. Unless becoming a city of old/retired people (like in Florida) is what folks here aspire to?
First off let's clear up a few things. I never said Dallas is CURRENTLY at NY levels. I did say that we will eventually get there with the way the cost of housing keeps rising. And I stand by my assertion that if Dallas did eventually get there, that no one is going to pay that type of money to live here. Or at least very few will.
I have family in NY, so I'm very aware of how expensive the housing is up there. Yet in discussions with my family members, they would never move down here, regardless of how much house they could get. Why? because in their eyes, Dallas is not on the same level as NY in just about anything other than housing costs. It's flyover country, boring etc. Now that's their opinion of course but that's how it is.
It's funny that you mention multigenerational housing because that's a reality in NY. A single detached family home with a yard and a garage is a non starter for the vast majority of the populace. Too expensive. Yet with all these obstacles, NY is still able to attract people from all over the US, and indeed all over the world. Does Dallas have that same pull with high home prices? I say no. Just read up on any new thread on someone moving to Dallas. Nine out of ten times they are moving for lower cost of living (tied to housing especially) and jobs. Remove the low cost of housing and then DFW looks a whole lot less attractive. Regardless of what the locals here think, Dallas is nowhere near NY/LA in terms of prestige or anything else. Even if Dallas house prices rise to just Chicago levels, that's still too high in my opinion.
On another note I will say this. You and I have sparred on a number of issues over the years(!). And while overall you tend to give great insights on many topics, you do also show that you live in a bubble, which then makes you look like at best you are extremely naïve and don't have a clue about how the masses live, or at worse you have a "Let them eat cake" attitude. I don't think it's being "over dramatic" that young people starting out can no longer aspire to own a $150K home here. It's not as if young people are complaining about being entitled to a $350K McMansion in Frisco. They are willing to start at the bottom of the housing market and work their way up. And that is no longer the case here. And like I said, if the end result is people being crammed into apartments with their parents/grandparents then why stay here? Why not go to NY/LA? I honestly do not think Dallas can afford to price out young homeowners. Otherwise in 30 years time you will be seeing multiple threads about young families leaving DFW to find a lower cost of living elsewhere. And that would be a shame.
1. Dallas will NEVER be at NYC price levels, NEVER. They are severely landlocked ; we are not. If a $300k home in Plano becomes a $1M home, then the $350k studio apartment in NYC will cost $1M then. Prices are going up everywhere right now; Dallas is still affordable relative to the coasts and will be practically forever. They aren't making any more land in NYC, but we have plenty of land and still are incredibly sparse vs dense when it comes to developments.
2. You can think what you want of me, but I graduated from college with a 5-figure student loan debt and a job paying in the $30k's in NYC. I shared a shoebox with multiple roommates and worked my tail end off at work for the last decade to get where I am today. My first real estate purchase was at the very height of the 2007 market and I hope to sell it this year - and break even to my loan balance + closing costs, despite doing everything right (down payment, bought @ 2X my salary, etc). I'm not bitter about it. My firsts home was a $150k range condo which some lucky person will get to buy in the $120-130k range this year. My husband was a renter for 10+ years after college so he could put 20% down on his starter home - which he then shared with a roommate to keep shoveling money into savings until I came along.
I am beyond blessed to have parents who sacrificed to keep us in HPISD and who were a stable loving family who valued education greatly, but every material possession or financial asset I have today I earned on my own (aside from my first 2 year's of college tuition/ room / board which they covered). So I don't see why it's so offensive to suggest that other young people work hard, pay their dues, get their debts under control, etc until they can afford to buy a home.
There's really no way that Dallas house price will ever get to the level of NYC, SF, or even LA. The second that it becomes near it, the growth will stop, I can pretty much guarantee it. I'm looking to move to Dallas and will be open to embrace everything positive about what Dallas can give such as safe suburbs, great economy, and cheaper housing comparatively to So Cal where I currently resides. This is the big driving force of why people are flocking to this area from other parts of the country mostly places that are more expensive to live. But lets face it, Dallas is a business town where people work and live. You don't take vacations to Dallas just to go to Dallas unless you have friends or family here.
If the cost of owning a home in Dallas will come near to about 80% of the cost of owning a home in So Cal, I would lose a lot of incentive to move to Dallas because other stuff such as weather, beach, etc would make up for the remaining 20% difference. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same as myself and that's why we would never see Dallas home price come anywhere near what we see in the larger cities along either coast.
[quote=TurtleCreek80;35705432]1. My first real estate purchase was at the very height of the 2007 market and I hope to sell it this year - and break even to my loan balance + closing costs, despite doing everything right (down payment, bought @ 2X my salary, etc). My firsts home was a $150k range condo
And right there you just proved my point. Your first purchase cost you $150K. Perfect price for a starter home to get your foot in the door of the housing market. And you were able to pay $150K in your own words, at the very height of the 2007 market. Now picture yourself married, wanting to purchase your very first home, and yet there is nothing in the $150K range, yet you are not comfortable paying for a $250K or $300K home. Then what? Are you content renting? and while multi generational living may be the norm in NY, it is most definitely not the culture down here. Outside of immigrants (whose culture is completely different), I can't say I've met any locals who live with parents and grandparents in the 15+ years I've lived in the Metroplex. So scratch that, it ain't happening.
My larger point is that if a young couple with say a couple of kids wants to buy a starter home, but are priced out here in DFW, yet all they have to do is look in OKC, Tulsa, Nashville, the Carolinas, and see similar low cost citied which DO offer entry level housing at reasonable prices, why wouldn't they leave? I would. Outside of housing, I dont see anything that really makes DFW stand out much in comparison to the cities I just mentioned. And that affects the life blood of cities. Families who own homes have a stake in the city they live in. They generally speaking care more about the growth and development of their city. People who rent are less attached. How many threads have we seen of people complaining about the lack of friendliness/involvement from the corporate transients in Collin County? They have no real reason to develop bonds here as they are not staying long term. Those are my thoughts, but hey, it's not up to me so it's whatever really.
My parents bought an estate sale house in 1973 from estate of original owner.
Original owners as a newlywed couple bought a small plot of land on Long Island in 1908 with a loan and moved into a cold water tiny walkup in brooklyn. By 1923 they saved enough to order a house from the Sears Catalogue had it assembled on the plot and they moved in and lived there till last of them died 50 years later.
My parents lived in an apartment too saving up for a house and finally bought their first house when my Mom was 48 and Dad was 50 off the estate of the orginal owner.
Flash forward to 2003 same house for sale after my parents died at begining of housing boom and young couples no money down, flippers and all folks showed up waving pre-approvals.
No patence to save up no desire to work on house. One couple in their mid 20s had balls to complain they are engaged and about to get married and still dont have a house.
1. Dallas will NEVER be at NYC price levels, NEVER. They are severely landlocked ; we are not. If a $300k home in Plano becomes a $1M home, then the $350k studio apartment in NYC will cost $1M then. Prices are going up everywhere right now; Dallas is still affordable relative to the coasts and will be practically forever. They aren't making any more land in NYC, but we have plenty of land and still are incredibly sparse vs dense when it comes to developments.
2. You can think what you want of me, but I graduated from college with a 5-figure student loan debt and a job paying in the $30k's in NYC. I shared a shoebox with multiple roommates and worked my tail end off at work for the last decade to get where I am today. My first real estate purchase was at the very height of the 2007 market and I hope to sell it this year - and break even to my loan balance + closing costs, despite doing everything right (down payment, bought @ 2X my salary, etc). I'm not bitter about it. My firsts home was a $150k range condo which some lucky person will get to buy in the $120-130k range this year. My husband was a renter for 10+ years after college so he could put 20% down on his starter home - which he then shared with a roommate to keep shoveling money into savings until I came along.
I am beyond blessed to have parents who sacrificed to keep us in HPISD and who were a stable loving family who valued education greatly, but every material possession or financial asset I have today I earned on my own (aside from my first 2 year's of college tuition/ room / board which they covered). So I don't see why it's so offensive to suggest that other young people work hard, pay their dues, get their debts under control, etc until they can afford to buy a home.
I am laughing my butt off you think there are 350K studios in Manhattan!!!!!
Studios are between 600k and 700K for the most part
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