Cistercian Prep Vs Southlake Public schools (Dallas, Paris: real estate, luxury, school rankings)

[BabyDoctor77]

Originally Posted by Big G

I'd argue that Cistercian *is*, in fact, at the level of St Mark's, at least academically.

Two differences are that
1) Cistercian's Catholic education is central to its very existence, while St. Mark's religious content, although present, is far more nebulous.
2) A subset of families at St. Mark's have net worths in the 8, 9, or even 10 figure range. You might find, at most, a couple of 8-figure people at Cistercian.


Oh, and there's very little hand-holding at Cistercian. More like butt-kicking.

I completely disagree. St. Marks is recognized nationwide and is at a completely different level than Cistercian. Just take a look at the IV league matriculations. It's inaccurate to imply that St. Marks is just a bunch of rich kids. Their students are undoubtedly amongst the brightest boys in Texas. Cistercian is a second tier private, behind St. Marks, Hockaday and Greenhill.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BabyDoctor77

I completely disagree. St. Marks is recognized nationwide and is at a completely different level than Cistercian. Just take a look at the IV league matriculations. It's inaccurate to imply that St. Marks is just a bunch of rich kids. Their students are undoubtedly amongst the brightest boys in Texas. Cistercian is a second tier private, behind St. Marks, Hockaday and Greenhill.

1. Niche has a ranking of the 50 toughest high schools in The US Cistercian is on it. To be fair St. Marks is in the top ten on that list.

2. For 2016 Cistercian's average SAT score is 2128. I can't find '16 data for SM but let's go with the longer run average of 2170 or so.

3. SM kids, mostly through misguided parental pressure, more or less all apply to Ivies as reach schools. Cistercian kids do not. A Cistercian kid's reach school is likely to be Notre Dame - which if you'll take a look is about as tough to get into as the Ivy League Schools.


It's reasonable to argue that St. Marks is a bit better school on the merits and a better fit for many kids.

Calling Cistercian a second tier private when it's undoubtedly one of the several dozen best high schools in the country is silly.

[Big G]

OK, then we disagree, particularly w/r/t Greenhill.

The NMSF percentages at both schools are consistently over 20%. No other private school in DFW comes close to that, and Greenhill doesn't even crack 10%.

IMO, Ivy admissions is a flawed metric, particularly for Cistercian. Cistercian's Ivy admissions should reasonably be expected to skew lower than St. Mark's. Why? Well, for those *very* same differences I listed above.

1) Given that almost all Cistercian families are Catholic, many of them will consider high-end Catholic schools like Notre Dame or Georgetown to be optimal choices for their kids, even above Ivies.
2) Standard admissions stats don't apply to ultra-high-net-worth people, particularly those whose offspring have successfully navigated a St. Mark's-level education. If St. Mark's has, say, 6-8 students each year with parents in the $100M+ club, that's going to produce 3 or 4 additional Ivy admits, above and beyond what the school itself would deliver.

[DallasG]

St. Marks is very selective, which helps with producing better results. If they had to admit everyone like public schools then they won't be producing results any better than HP or Plano. Greenhill isn't as selective as SM or Hockaday.

[SMS_Parent]

Originally Posted by DallasG

If expense isn't a concern and you are looking for more hand held experience then I would recommend that.

Few people with any knowledge of competitive private schools in Dallas would accuse the Hungarian monks who run Cistercian of "hand holding." It is known for its lack of grade inflation. St. Mark's, Greenhill and Cistercian all offer different academic experiences, but the difference isn't that Cistercian is less rigorous. All high school classes at Cistercian are taught at the AP level or above -- see the 92% AP pass rate -- beginning with an AP level Biology class which the students take in ninth grade. At most schools, including St. Mark's, students take a basic biology class first before taking the AP level class. All the other elite privates and publics practice tracking. In contrast, every student at Cistercian takes the same required core academic courses and may choose either seven semesters of French or seven semesters of Spanish after four years of required middle school Latin -- a foreign language requirement that exceeds the requirement at any Dallas area school I am familiar with other than the Dallas International School. (Students also choose one elective per semester.) While people might legitimately debate whether Cistercian or St. Mark's is the more academically challenging school overall, there really aren't any other schools in the Metroplex that belong in the conversation.

[DallasG]

Originally Posted by SMS_Parent

Few people with any knowledge of competitive private schools in Dallas would accuse the Hungarian monks who run Cistercian of "hand holding." It is known for its lack of grade inflation. St. Mark's, Greenhill and Cistercian all offer different academic experiences, but the difference isn't that Cistercian is less rigorous. All high school classes at Cistercian are taught at the AP level or above -- see the 92% AP pass rate -- beginning with an AP level Biology class which the students take in ninth grade. At most schools, including St. Mark's, students take a basic biology class first before taking the AP level class. All the other elite privates and publics practice tracking. In contrast, every student at Cistercian takes the same required core academic courses and may choose either seven semesters of French or seven semesters of Spanish after four years of required middle school Latin -- a foreign language requirement that exceeds the requirement at any Dallas area school I am familiar with other than the Dallas International School. (Students also choose one elective per semester.) While people might legitimately debate whether Cistercian or St. Mark's is the more academically challenging school overall, there really aren't any other schools in the Metroplex that belong in the conversation.

By "hand held", I meant a more intimate, guided and supervised setting compared to public schools where you need to navigate things on your own and no one is looking out if you fall behind as long as you are meeting state requirements.

[SMS_Parent]

Originally Posted by DallasG

By "hand held", I meant a more intimate, guided and supervised setting compared to public schools where you need to navigate things on your own and no one is looking out if you fall behind as long as you are meeting state requirements.

Sorry for misunderstanding your comment -- it is definitely true that most of the elite privates do provide a more personalized experience than the typical large public school. This is particularly true in the area of college counseling, where there is a great emphasis on finding the right fit for each student.

[DallasG]

Public school guidance counselors are nothing but a joke.

[greyzone]

Thanks a ton to All those who contributed to this thread, amazing insights from local Dallas folks!

[pichanga99]

I always see the same cheerleaders for Cistercian in this forum, Big G, DallasG, SMS Parent, etc. They try to put Cistercian at the same level of St. Mark. I know that at least 2 of the opinionated people in this forum are related to Cistercian and constantly review this forum.
My answer: Visit both schools, talk with the teachers, talk with the principals, look at the installations and their programs, etc. and you'll see a big difference which reflects in the tuition difference. That why you pay more at St. Mark. Sorry but in this case the tuition difference matters, even if some of you disagree.
I'm not affiliated to St. Mark but I have visited both schools and based on my research St. Mark is the best.