Question regarding car position in large gap with median when turning left?? (Frisco: live, legally)

[TGentry]

Okay... I'm not sure how to describe my question, but I hope someone will catch-on. So.. you know when you are trying to make a left turn from a small street onto a busy road, but are not at a 4-way stop sign or an intersection with a traffic signal, and you will be crossing through one direction of traffic to turn left into the other direction of traffic, which is separated by a median? (I think that's the longest run-on sentence ever...) Quite often there will be a huge gap in the median (separating the direction of lanes of traffic) that one can use to make a left turn. Where, legally, should one's car be while waiting or turning left in this median (in the big gap)? Should the car be on the right side of the large gap or should it be on the left side of the gap?

[mm4]

You should be stopped, waiting patiently, in the small street with your left turn signal on and your wheels directed straight. Until both directions of traffic allow you to commit to a safely timed, continuous left turn from that small street.

And they have right of way. And pedestrians have even more right of way.

[TGentry]

I should also add that in my scenario, there is no stripe in the medium separating the left and right sides. If that were the case, then the car should obviously stay to the right of the strip.

[TGentry]

Originally Posted by mm4

You should be stopped, waiting patiently, in the small street with your left turn signal on and your wheels directed straight. Until both directions of traffic allow you to safely commit to a continuous left turn.

Thanks, but my question is should my car be hugging the left side of the median or stay on the right side if there is no pavement markings?

[mm4]

It appears you're describing a dimensional grassy/raised/concrete separator, and not a mere dotted single or dual yellow stripe. You should not ideally ever be at a stop anywhere in between there unless a situation drastically and momentarily changed from when you evaluated it before leaving the small street to safely attempt a continuous turn left.

[TGentry]

I found my exact question posed online along with an answer by a "Senior Traffic Engineer" from Frisco. It appears that I should stay on the right side when in the wide gap of a median making a left turn onto a divided road. However, I've been told by many others to stay on the left side and hug the median, which makes it confusing getting different answers.

This is what the Frisco traffic engineer wrote:

[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]"When you are crossing a divided roadway, you should wait at the stop sign until you have a clear path to complete your left turn (or cross the entire road) in one movement. Often times, traffic is heavy enough that people do not want to wait for the large gap to do this. If that is the case, the best course of action is to turn right and take an alternate route or make a u-turn down the road.

However, if the median is wide enough to contain a car, many people will travel half way across the divided roadway and wait in the median. If someone does this, these would be the "rules":

Let's say that the divided roadway is Main Street, which runs east-west, and that you are on a side street which runs north-south. Traffic on Main Street always has the right of way over traffic coming from the side street. Therefore, traffic coming from the side street should always yield to eastbound and westbound through traffic on Main Street as well as to eastbound and westbound traffic making left turns off of Main Street. This means that side street traffic should never go out and wait in the median if there is a car waiting to turn left off of Main Street.

When northbound traffic leaves the side street and waits in the median to complete the maneuver, there should only be one car from the side street waiting in the median at a time. Therefore, the first car in line to leave the side street needs to make sure there is no northbound car waiting in the median ahead of them (or a car waiting to turn left from eastbound Main Street). Then, when they see a gap in eastbound Main Street, they can proceed to the median opening and stay on the right side of it (being careful not to block the westbound left-turn lane). The median opening should be treated like a little road, with traffic staying on the right.

As the car sits in the median, it now works as if the car is waiting next to a one-way street. This means that the side street car needs to let all westbound through traffic and westbound left-turn traffic go in front of it before it can go. So if a westbound car enters the left-turn lane while the side street car is waiting, the westbound car gets to go around the side street car first. "
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[jennifw]

I get what you are asking. the big gap should be treated like other roadway positions where you stay to the right.

[TGentry]

Originally Posted by jennifw

I get what you are asking. the big gap should be treated like other roadway positions where you stay to the right.

Thank you. I agree, and yet my spouse still insists cars are to hug the left side of the median... I'm surprised I don't see more accidents at situations like this since cars do it both ways.

[2URGSE]

Originally Posted by TGentry

Thank you. I agree, and yet my spouse still insists cars are to hug the left side of the median... I'm surprised I don't see more accidents at situations like this since cars do it both ways.

this reminds me of some roads back when I lived in the SF Bay area.

certain medians will even have the little yellow markers denoting a division in the median. but even with the markers, i'd often see cars hug the left side of the median instead of going all the way to the right. i've attached an example of what those medians looked like.

[Big G]

The correct answer, as found in your own post, is "You shouldn't be stopped in the median at all."

Originally Posted by TGentry

When you are crossing a divided roadway, you should wait at the stop sign until you have a clear path to complete your left turn (or cross the entire road) in one movement.

....

the best course of action is to turn right and take an alternate route or make a u-turn down the road.

...


This means that side street traffic should never go out and wait in the median if there is a car waiting to turn left off of Main Street.

Why? To avoid this cluster:

So if a westbound car enters the left-turn lane while the side street car is waiting, the westbound car gets to go around the side street car first. "

Unlike most cities, the roads around the northern suburbs are set up to facilitate easy "right-turn + U-turn" replacements for left turns. Take advantage of that.