Afterthought - Califronians Move to Dallas ? (Orange, Highland Park: for sale, real estate, house)

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

You'll end up in Colo Springs

I WISH.

If I had a dollar for everyone in Dallas who'd rather be in Colorado, I wouldn't have to work.

[mkdude_08]

We took a detour to Minnesota for seven years (and loved it!) but came from L.A. and San Francisco. Here's a bit of my experience:

1. The financial aspects are worlds apart. You don't need to spend $500k to get into a good area with quality schools. Our house was $375k and is arguably too large - we likely could have gotten away with $300k in a smaller home.

2. The market moves very fast here. We were in an open house a few months ago and potential buyers were walking in the door literally every two minutes.

3. The people here are very friendly and at least seem genuine. When I first got here I was really caught off guard by how pleasant most everyone was.

4. Property taxes are high, but at least for us they are more than made up for by the lack of state income tax.

5. They call it "Big D" for a reason - this city/area is HUGE.

6. It gets very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very hot in the summer which extends into September. The sun feels more "direct" here, much like the IE in SoCal. As long as you stay in the shade you're ok but it's not really any worse than the cold Minnesota winters. There are simply times during the year you don't hang outside.

7. DFW is a major hub and you can get inexpensive flights to just about anywhere.

8. I like the fact that we're still in the central time zone. I never really thought of this benefit until we moved back to it from California.

9. As Beardown mentioned, there are many Bears bars. I am a Green Bay man so I would never go to them

10. I really like the winters here. Yes, I do miss the snow but it does get very cool (high 20's, low 30's) which is wonderful. Many of my friends believe it's hot and sunny everyday. Not true.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by mkdude_08

4. Property taxes are high, but at least for us they are more than made up for by the lack of state income tax.

Highest property taxes in the country: New Jersey. Then add its state income tax.

[longhornsf]

A few observations from my move:

1) Texas is a high tax state. Repeat: high tax. Everyone loves to talk about the zero state income tax, but they don't mention that property tax rates run from 2.5-3% of "assessed" value. Property tax is Texas' version of income tax. The worst part about it is your property tax goes up 5-10% every year (based upon bogus assessments, which always seem to increase) even if your income stays flat.

Compare that to California where property tax is 1% of your purchase price. Own a $500k house in Dallas? Expect to pay $15k of property tax initially and expect that amount to increase 5-10% every year. After including Texas' higher sales tax, I'm paying about the same tax as I did in California. Of course, your numbers will vary, but it's not the low tax utopia that some like to paint.

2) The real estate market is very hot in Dallas. Great time for sellers, bad for buyers. It's strange because Texas was really, really cheap when I grew up here. It's common to see homes that sold for $300-400k a decade ago now selling for $600-700k. Of course compared to the Bay Area or coastal areas of LA that's still somewhat affordable, but real estate is no longer cheap unless you want to live way in the suburbs.

3) Urban living is making a comeback. One thing that has changed for the better is the urban core. There are an increasing number of walkable areas with great nightlife, restaurants, cafes, etc. It wasn't like that even 10 years ago.

4) The DFW economy is booming. It's similar to the Bay Area in terms of economic boom. Always great to live in a city where people are upbeat and optimistic.

5) Great airports. As someone mentioned earlier, having a hub airport like DFW is great for both international and domestic travel. It's nice not having to connect anymore. Very similar to LAX in this regard.

6) Summers are bad. I suppose it always feels worse as you get older, but Texas is worse than I remember it in my childhood. July and August are terrible. It feels like somebody is putting a blowdryer in your face.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by longhornsf

A few observations from my move:

1) Texas is a high tax state. Repeat: high tax. Everyone loves to talk about the zero state income tax, but they don't mention that property tax rates run from 2.5-3% of "assessed" value. Property tax is Texas' version of income tax. The worst part about it is your property tax goes up 5-10% every year (based upon bogus assessments, which always seem to increase) even if your income stays flat.

Compare that to California where property tax is 1% of your purchase price. Own a $500k house in Dallas? Expect to pay $15k of property tax initially and expect that amount to increase 5-10% every year. After including Texas' higher sales tax, I'm paying about the same tax as I did in California. Of course, your numbers will vary, but it's not the low tax utopia that some like to paint.

2) The real estate market is very hot in Dallas. Great time for sellers, bad for buyers. It's strange because Texas was really, really cheap when I grew up here. It's common to see homes that sold for $300-400k a decade ago now selling for $600-700k. Of course compared to the Bay Area or coastal areas of LA that's still somewhat affordable, but real estate is no longer cheap unless you want to live way in the suburbs.

3) Urban living is making a comeback. One thing that has changed for the better is the urban core. There are an increasing number of walkable areas with great nightlife, restaurants, cafes, etc. It wasn't like that even 10 years ago.

4) The DFW economy is booming. It's similar to the Bay Area in terms of economic boom. Always great to live in a city where people are upbeat and optimistic.

5) Great airports. As someone mentioned earlier, having a hub airport like DFW is great for both international and domestic travel. It's nice not having to connect anymore. Very similar to LAX in this regard.

6) Summers are bad. I suppose it always feels worse as you get older, but Texas is worse than I remember it in my childhood. July and August are terrible. It feels like somebody is putting a blowdryer in your face.

Your number 1 is categorically incorrect. And much of your supporting evidence is also incorrect or incomplete.

[longhornsf]

Your number 1 is categorically incorrect. And much of your supporting evidence is also incorrect or incomplete.

Funny, I recently finished my taxes, so I have a pretty good handle on the numbers. Where's your evidence?

[numbersguy100]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Your number 1 is categorically incorrect. And much of your supporting evidence is also incorrect or incomplete.

For someone whose income is low or not growing, Texas can be a higher tax state relative to a state which taxes real estate and consumption at lower levels. Using California as the comparison state is not valid, however.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by longhornsf

Funny, I recently finished my taxes, so I have a pretty good handle on the numbers. Where's your evidence?

On $50,000 income the state and local tax burden in Texas is the 4th lowest in the country at 7.5% and CA is 47th at 11.4%
No. 50: New York - In Photos: Best And Worst States For Taxes - Forbes

CA sales taxes are up to 10%
CA City & County Sales & Use Tax Rates - Board of Equalization

On any new home purchase the CA and local property tax rate will be between 1.1% and 1.6%
The Average Property Tax Rates in California | Home Guides | SF Gate

The effective CA income tax rate on $100,000 in income is roughly 6.5% (marginal rate 9.30%)
https://smartasset.com/taxes/califor...tor#reoLdhAo7a

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by numbersguy100

For someone whose income is low or growing, Texas can be a higher tax state relative to a state which taxes real estate and consumption at lower levels. Using California as the comparison state is not valid, however.

Agreed.

[longhornsf]

Ok let's do some simple math here with an example.

Income - $100k
Home - $400k
CA effective income tax - 6% (keep in mind the state income tax is deductible from federal)
CA property tax - 1% (assume no Mello Roos, which only applies to certain suburbs)
TX property tax in Dallas county - 3%


California
Property tax: 4k (fixed at purchase price)
Income tax: 6k
Total tax: 10k

Texas
Income tax: 0
Property tax: 3% * 400k = 12k (also increases annually 5-10%)
Total tax = 12k

Which deal looks better to you? And how do those numbers look again in five years when your Texas property tax bill has increased 25-40% because your local appraisal district constantly assesses higher land values?