National Merit Semifinalists 2018 (Plano, Frisco, Liberty: high schools, versus, stats)

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

I have some acquaintances with kids who are attending/have attended Keller, and they've spoken well of it and their children have received goo educations, so don't make too much of this criticism, but...

Keller HS has an affluent enough student body that one would expect it to be in the top tier of schools in DFW (much like Southlake, Colleyville and Grapevine close by), but it is not. It's not a "bad" school by any means and has metrics that are well above average, but it trails GCISD and the "Usual Suspects" of Carroll, Plano, Coppell.

If anything, I would be more favorably disposed towards schools that have slightly lower absolute metrics but "punch above their weight" by most measures.

Just one's person opinion, of course, and Keller is a perfectly nice place, but the results you note are a reason I'm reluctant to recommend it over other options in the area.

(FYI - we also looked in that part of Colleyville when we were house-hunting years ago)

Good analysis. That’s why we love Plano schools, specially Plano East, PISD is consistently punching way above their weight against equally or more affluent public schools, even pricy private schools.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by CMC_TX

Surprised and disappointed Keller HS apparently has 3? The section of Colleyville I live in feeds to Keller HS and taxes are definitely high enough. Surprised they aren’t producing at a higher level.

I actually have a child attending Keller HS. We have only been there a short time so I can't offer the perspective of someone whose child has graduated.

First, if there is something to the cultural achievement on the PSAT, Keller is predominantly white.

Second, I have been completely impressed by the attitude of the teachers and administration so far. Our son has two learning disabilities. Within weeks we have had his needs addressed. Teachers have called me to ask about my son and what they can do to help.

From what I can see of the school, Keller is very focused on balancing behavior and character with learning. Teachers talk openly about how most likely your child will not use "class xyz" as an adult in real life, so they want to shape students who handle the challenge of learning gracefully, because that is what will serve them through adulthood.

Keller ISD has also invested heavily into their advanced learning center, which offers hands on learning in more technical fields.

We were convinced we wanted Flower Mound schools and were wary of Keller because of what I read on this board. But I haven't been the least bit disappointed.

It is no doubt true that Coppell/Carroll/Grapevine/Plano are " better" schools when you look at certain parameters. But not every child needs or wants or would benefit from that environment.

Also, I have seen Northwest ISD recommend on here a bunch. Every single teacher and administrator at Keller who has experience in Northwest raves about Keller in comparison.

[DFWUser1]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

I actually have a child attending Keller HS. We have only been there a short time so I can't offer the perspective of someone whose child has graduated.

First, if there is something to the cultural achievement on the PSAT, Keller is predominantly white.

Second, I have been completely impressed by the attitude of the teachers and administration so far. Our son has two learning disabilities. Within weeks we have had his needs addressed. Teachers have called me to ask about my son and what they can do to help.

From what I can see of the school, Keller is very focused on balancing behavior and character with learning. Teachers talk openly about how most likely your child will not use "class xyz" as an adult in real life, so they want to shape students who handle the challenge of learning gracefully, because that is what will serve them through adulthood.

Keller ISD has also invested heavily into their advanced learning center, which offers hands on learning in more technical fields.

We were convinced we wanted Flower Mound schools and were wary of Keller because of what I read on this board. But I haven't been the least bit disappointed.

It is no doubt true that Coppell/Carroll/Grapevine/Plano are " better" schools when you look at certain parameters. But not every child needs or wants or would benefit from that environment.

Also, I have seen Northwest ISD recommend on here a bunch. Every single teacher and administrator at Keller who has experience in Northwest raves about Keller in comparison.

Exactly, my thoughts are in line with yours. And right perspective about Keller. Sometimes I see that lacks on this board - thinking everyone is particular about NMSF numbers. We prefer all-round and balanced education - sports, music/arts, science/technology, infrastructure and environment to support success. And students excel in their chosen field without too much of peer pressure.

For example in that list above, all McKinney schools are single digits. McKinney Boyd highest at 5, McKinney North at 4 and McKinney high just 3. Those schools are not super small though.

Similarly all other 7 high schools in Frisco are at single digits except liberty which is 17. Frisco high, lone star high at just 2, centennial at 3, heritage at 5, independence, wakeland at 6.

Many other schools in Frisco and McKinney are at low single digits, but still you see some posters on this board cheer leading all of Frisco, McKinney. And non-residents badmouth Allen deliberately and calling low performing with some % calculations when the fact is Allen has 21 overall which is reasonably good. Allen has many awards in Music and Sports. Don't understand how they can say that.

When facts are discussed in detail, some people attack.

My point here is - we have to take individual schools, neighborhood and specific situations into consideration. Instead of boasting Plano is great, all of Frisco is great, or Allen or McKinney is great. There are various factors that goes into NMSF or any other success - mainly students themselves, parents, priorities, etc. and not just the school itself. Some years it will be more and some times it will be less. There are great, good, not so good schools in every city/town - But you don't see that commonsense on this board sometimes.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by DFWUser1

My point here is - we have to take individual schools, neighborhood and specific situations into consideration. Instead of boasting Plano is great, all of Frisco is great, or Allen or McKinney is great. There are various factors that goes into NMSF or any other success - mainly students themselves, parents, priorities, etc. and not just the school itself. Some years it will be more and some times it will be less. There are great, good, not so good schools in every city/town - But you don't see that commonsense on this board sometimes.

Not only that, but it is short sighted to talk about the same 5 high schools over and over again. How many people can easily afford Highland Park or Southlake? It's awesome that Plano West and Frisco are great schools, but the location may not work for everyone. We even looked at Coppell, but the real estate choices were unappealing. Maybe we should have bought a house we didn't like so our kid could go to Coppell? I don't understand that thinking.

I don't know, maybe coming from a state with far worse educational choices has me shaking my head. You all don't know how good you have it here. There are any number of fine schools to choose from. NMSF is a great indicator, but it is far from the only factor.

[UnfairPark]

Nobody said that NMSF is the only factor. To be realistic, less than 1% of high school students in whole country make it, roughly 16k out of 4 Million so odds of any random kid making it are very low. It is used as one of the indicators to gauge community’s affluence/educational standards, student body’s interest in higher education, school’s academic standards, level of math and English instruction, prediction of SAT/ACT scores etc.

If a school is consistently producing high number of NMSF, you know your child will be served well, regardless of being NMSF material or not.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

If a school is consistently producing high number of NMSF, you know your child will be served well, regardless of being NMSF material or not.

I could not disagree more.

I have read every review I could find for almost every HS in DFW. And what I see mentioned time and again about "the best" high schools is that they serve the top 10% and the bottom 10%. My middle of the road kid would be overlooked in that regard. Or if a school regularly puts out NMSF students but it ignores fine arts, or interventions, or different ways of teaching to different kinds of learners, that doesn't help my kid either.

As you well know, standardized tests like this only measure certain factors of success. They cannot and do not measure ambition, dedication, emotional intelligence, social skills, and a score of other factors that determine success or lack thereof.

I have two nieces, both of whom scored phenomenally on the SAT. One is on a scholarship at a top
10 engineering program. The other one went to a small state school, dropped out after one semester, and then
dropped out of junior college.

So when I read on here about people worrying because their school hasn't produced "enough"
NMSF, I am merely saying that such a parameter is probably not that vital in the big scheme of things.

[DFWUser1]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

Nobody said that NMSF is the only factor. To be realistic, less than 1% of high school students in whole country make it, roughly 16k out of 4 Million so odds of any random kid making it are very low. It is used as one of the indicators to gauge community’s affluence/educational standards, student body’s interest in higher education, school’s academic standards, level of math and English instruction, prediction of SAT/ACT scores etc.

If a school is consistently producing high number of NMSF, you know your child will be served well, regardless of being NMSF material or not.

Of course it is not rocket science, that's understandable and I do think that people recognize it as well and take a decision based on overall needs. The issue is constantly brought up how many times? People get it. And, telling Allen low performing even though it had 21 and ignoring many other positive aspects. If someone else say different or multiple times - attacks. One can give the facts, explain things - but bad mouthing incorrectly and giving generic statements is not right.

[jiping]

% of 11th grader who become NMSF

14.1% St. Marks School of Texas

13.2% Hockaday School

11.6% Cistercian Prep

8.2% Talented & Gifted magnet

7.8% Greenhill School

6.5% Science & Engineering magnet

5.6% Plano West

4.0% Flower Mound High

3.6% Carroll
3.4% Colleyville Heritage High
3.0% Highland Park High
3.0% Liberty High

2.9% Coppell High
2.3% Grapevine High
2.1% Marcus High
2.0% Independence High
2.0% Plano East

1.7% JJ Pearce
1.6% Lovejoy High
1.5% Plano Senior
1.3% Allen High
1.3% Garland High
1.2% Hebron High
1.2% Heritage High
1.1% Wakeland High

0.8% McKinney North
0.7% Centennial High
0.7% Lone Star
0.7% McKinney Boyd
0.6% Creekview High
0.6% McKinney High
0.4% Frisco High

[MKDFW]

Private schools, and public schools that do not produce enough NMSF offer up numerous reasons, and most of them are listed in this thread. They are all convenient excuses to obscure the reality that they simply do not have enough students with the intellectual capability, and aptitude (helped by the academic programs, and rigor at each school) to produce a certain percentage of NMSF.

[jennifw]

I wanted to add something I found out today. A few times, posts like this say something like - "where is DISD on the list? If Woodrow is so great, why don't they produce any/many NMSF?"

Well, part of the answer is that Juniors at Woodrow don't take the PSAT! It is automatically administered to all sophomores (and paid by the district) In the past, it was offered to juniors on a first-come-first-served basis for a small fee. They did away with that this year because a) the district doesn't have a budget for any unused tests and b)students would be turned away if the school ran out of (pre-purchased) tests. According to the National Merit website, sophomore tests don't count towards NMSF.

I don't understand the logic. Other districts form PSAT "clubs" based on sophomore scores and prep the highest scoring students. Woodrow doesn't even set the kids up to be in the running!