St Rita v All Saints school

[FarNorDFW]

Originally Posted by Je427

Thank you again for all of this info. It’s so helpful. We’re also zoned for Brentfield, but feel strongly about a Catholic education.

Do you have any idea how many 8th graders from ASCS head to UA/Jesuit? Are most applying for JPII? Where else are the heading for high school?

The SRCS website has these stats and it seems like the grads almost exclusively go to UA/Jesuit (makes sense with Jesuit next door).

Cistercian starts in fifth grade, so we didn't finish out to be plugged in with everyoen, but Jesuit, JPII, UA were all on the list. ASCS draws enough students east of Coit to also put Bishop Lynch in play. And quite a few transition to public school (Pearce).

Not for nothing, I felt like ASCS punched above its weight for Cistercian. ASCS doesn't send boys to Cistercian every year, but maybe something like every other year or so.

[FarNorDFW]

Originally Posted by EDS_

My kids are Jesuit and Ursuline grads respectively, each was a travel/club level sportster as well.

1. I'd fully reject your friend's input. All of the Catholic schools sport economic diversity metrics well to far beyond that of SM, Hockaday, Greenhill ESD, Parish etc. Any difference between AS and SR in this regard is firmly in the margins.

2. I'd also, mostly, reject broad proclamations implying either ASCS or SRCS is more academic or sporty than the other. Both have and have graduated kids who are excellent athletes and excellent students or both. Kids who are really strong athletes are likely to play club sports and the club sports scene in Plano, excepting basketball, drubs the same in Dallas. IOW if your kiddo is/or tracks towards being a travel/club level in ice hockey, volleyball, gymnastics, baseball, swimming etc. ASCS may actually be better for a sporty kid than SRCS even though SRCS teams are generally much better.

3. Academics........errrr gotta' run more later.

I dunno. I don't believe the data really supports you in this instance.

Re: socioeconomics: There is more than a marginal socioeconomic difference between SRCS and ASCS. The zip codes that dominate enrollment at the respective schools show materially different socioeconomic data in census results. Home values are also materially different. While not perfect proxies, this data is relevant. To be fair, I found, as was the case for our family, there was a real, measurable contingent of Shelton/ASCS families that skewed ASCS socioeconomic data upward back when Shelton was at Hillcrest and Arapaho (perhaps 3-4% of the students at ASCS has Shelton enrolled siblings). I wonder if that is still the case since Shelton moved to Preston.

Re: academics: when we were introduced to and enrolled at SRCS we were explicitly told that SRCS has a long standing waiver from the diocese to run a different curriculum than what the diocese mandates. We noticed the difference. Perhaps that exemption has been removed, but I distinctly remember that being the case. ASCS starts its honors tracks in 4th Grade while SRCS starts in 6th. ASCS has been recognized as a national blue ribbon school three times in the past twenty or so years (top 15% reading and math scores to be eligible). This is particularly impressive given that you can’t be given the honor more than once in a five year period. SRCS last received that recognition in 1999 (though I am sure SRCS has been reaching eligibility criteria). None of this is perfect data, but this points in a certain direction.

Re: sports: I think we’re saying two different things here. But I also don’t see ASCS being a better destination for a sporty kid just for proximity to Plano club sports. The club sports scene isn't as clear cut. For basketball, lacrosse, football and perhaps baseball focused kids, the clubs south of 635 around Jesuit and HP are stronger (especially when you factor the club programs that practice out of Jesuit and have Jesuit coach involvement). I also don't think the country club sports are clearly better in Plano. And of course we know the famous golfer was a St. Monica alum that learned at Brookhaven.

The Dallas parochial league keeps extensive records of athletic results. Even after adjusting for relative size, the records paint a clear picture of relative athletic prowess and athletic PARTICIPATION (an excellent proxy for athletic focus) that favors SRCS. Basketball is illustrative. This year, across the four DPL grades, ASCS had three total boys basketball teams (one each in each of 6th, 7th and 8th grade). St. Rita had sixteen boys teams (four each in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade). The same trend holds true in other sports. From my experience, SRCS students hit the ground running in DPL in fifth grade in all sports. Fifth grade DPL sports are sparse at ASCS and then participation is hit or miss going forward. Some sports simply are rarely fielded at ASCS (baseball, tackle football).

Also, Jesuit athletics maintains a robust athletic website that details which middle school each athlete came from. Ignoring non-traditional sports like Crew and Rugby, St. Rita alums have 41 varsity spots at Jesuit this year compared to 4 for ASCS. Neither of DPL participation or current Jesuit varsity participation is dispositive, but it does paint a picture of what is happening here.

Yes, excellent athletes and excellent students CAN and HAVE come from anywhere (including Title I public schools). If that's the standard, we should shut all of this down and send our kids to Plano West or Pearce. That's not really saying anything. It is just a non-falsifiable statement. Yet most of us choose to send our kids to specific schools for a variety of reasons (in our case we had to get closer to Shelton and that moved us to ASCS). I am not saying either school is objectively better than the other. I'm not saying either school is bad. But the data does point in certain directions and I families may look at that data and their children and decide one is a better fit than the other for their particular family needs. OP needs to reach her own conclusion.

If you have different data or a different read on the data, I’m happy to be wrong.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by FarNorDFW

I dunno. I don't believe the data really supports you in this instance.

Re: socioeconomics: There is more than a marginal socioeconomic difference between SRCS and ASCS. The zip codes that dominate enrollment at the respective schools show materially different socioeconomic data in census results. Home values are also materially different. While not perfect proxies, this data is relevant. To be fair, I found, as was the case for our family, there was a real, measurable contingent of Shelton/ASCS families that skewed ASCS socioeconomic data upward back when Shelton was at Hillcrest and Arapaho (perhaps 3-4% of the students at ASCS has Shelton enrolled siblings). I wonder if that is still the case since Shelton moved to Preston.

Re: academics: when we were introduced to and enrolled at SRCS we were explicitly told that SRCS has a long standing waiver from the diocese to run a different curriculum than what the diocese mandates. We noticed the difference. Perhaps that exemption has been removed, but I distinctly remember that being the case. ASCS starts its honors tracks in 4th Grade while SRCS starts in 6th. ASCS has been recognized as a national blue ribbon school three times in the past twenty or so years (top 15% reading and math scores to be eligible). This is particularly impressive given that you can’t be given the honor more than once in a five year period. SRCS last received that recognition in 1999 (though I am sure SRCS has been reaching eligibility criteria). None of this is perfect data, but this points in a certain direction.

Re: sports: I think we’re saying two different things here. But I also don’t see ASCS being a better destination for a sporty kid just for proximity to Plano club sports. The club sports scene isn't as clear cut. For basketball, lacrosse, football and perhaps baseball focused kids, the clubs south of 635 around Jesuit and HP are stronger (especially when you factor the club programs that practice out of Jesuit and have Jesuit coach involvement). I also don't think the country club sports are clearly better in Plano. And of course we know the famous golfer was a St. Monica alum that learned at Brookhaven.

The Dallas parochial league keeps extensive records of athletic results. Even after adjusting for relative size, the records paint a clear picture of relative athletic prowess and athletic PARTICIPATION (an excellent proxy for athletic focus) that favors SRCS. Basketball is illustrative. This year, across the four DPL grades, ASCS had three total boys basketball teams (one each in each of 6th, 7th and 8th grade). St. Rita had sixteen boys teams (four each in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade). The same trend holds true in other sports. From my experience, SRCS students hit the ground running in DPL in fifth grade in all sports. Fifth grade DPL sports are sparse at ASCS and then participation is hit or miss going forward. Some sports simply are rarely fielded at ASCS (baseball, tackle football).

Also, Jesuit athletics maintains a robust athletic website that details which middle school each athlete came from. Ignoring non-traditional sports like Crew and Rugby, St. Rita alums have 41 varsity spots at Jesuit this year compared to 4 for ASCS. Neither of DPL participation or current Jesuit varsity participation is dispositive, but it does paint a picture of what is happening here.

Yes, excellent athletes and excellent students CAN and HAVE come from anywhere (including Title I public schools). If that's the standard, we should shut all of this down and send our kids to Plano West or Pearce. That's not really saying anything. It is just a non-falsifiable statement. Yet most of us choose to send our kids to specific schools for a variety of reasons (in our case we had to get closer to Shelton and that moved us to ASCS). I am not saying either school is objectively better than the other. I'm not saying either school is bad. But the data does point in certain directions and I families may look at that data and their children and decide one is a better fit than the other for their particular family needs. OP needs to reach her own conclusion.

If you have different data or a different read on the data, I’m happy to be wrong.

Sorry I lost track of your post. Thanks for the well reasoned responses.

I'd agree with your socioeconomics point between ASCS and SRCS. My point is more of a follow on.....the gap between SRCS and most nearby non-Catholic schools is even greater.


So far as sports I meant my post to be fairly specific. A depending upon the his/her sport a strong athlete may be just as well off at ASCS as SRCS because of the club angle. Cleary if ASCS does not offer a kid's chosen sport that's one thing. The truth is club/competitive opportunities for gymnastics, volleyball, soccer, swimming, ice hockey and yes baseball are centered in the 'burbs and mostly the northern burbs.

There is no question Jesuit has made amazing investments in time, talent and money towards improving swimming and baseball ops.