Forward Dallas

[SanJac]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

So where does the idea that single family detached homeowners get additional government legal power to dictate what others can do with their property unavailable to no other type of property owner come from? Is there something wrong with enacting private deed restrictions instead of zoning laws?

Neither disallowing ADUs nor having minimum lot or home sizes in greenfield suburbs is justifiable unless there's a real life/safety issue (which generally there isn't). How much you paid for your home makes absolutely no difference in how much legal sayso you should get regarding surrounding land uses.

Houston and the state of Texas (which doesn't allow counties to zone) do it right. The California mentality of so many Texans is very disappointing.

Says the guy that has a weekend home in Brenham! LOL

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Sort of like when someone else got triggered when Dallas’ lesser competition in super markets got brought up elsewhere

Hey, y’all are tryna gang up on me. Lol

I don’t want to go wayyyyyy off topic, but a Dallas grocer helped to create the Walmart Supercenter. Dallas for the longest was dominated by local chains. Tom Thumb and Minyard’s were the big 2 local chains with National chains like Kroger and Albertsons trailing them. Even when Tom Thumb sold in the 90s, Minyard’s was still a top chain in the Metroplex in the 2000s, before they sold too around 2004ish. Tom Thumb partnered with Walmart to create Hypermart USA, which was an early prototype of the Walmart Supercenter. Consolidation in the grocery industry of local chains and the rise of Walmart with a concept that was already familiar to the area, easily allowed them to take off. Being much larger also allowed them to undercut the competition. Just like how Randall’s in Houston was the dominate chain that slowly died because of consolidation. HEB just got a head of it and expanded in Houston first. Just remember I let you win that debate lol

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Hey, y’all are tryna gang up on me. Lol

I don’t want to go wayyyyyy off topic, but a Dallas grocer helped to create the Walmart Supercenter. Dallas for the longest was dominated by local chains. Tom Thumb and Minyard’s were the big 2 local chains with National chains like Kroger and Albertsons trailing them. Even when Tom Thumb sold in the 90s, Minyard’s was still a top chain in the Metroplex in the 2000s, before they sold too around 2004ish. Tom Thumb partnered with Walmart to create Hypermart USA, which was an early prototype of the Walmart Supercenter. Consolidation in the grocery industry of local chains and the rise of Walmart with a concept that was already familiar to the area, easily allowed them to take off. Being much larger also allowed them to undercut the competition. Just like how Randall’s in Houston was the dominate chain that slowly died because of consolidation. HEB just got a head of it and expanded in Houston first. Just remember I let you win that debate lol

Well, there's a LOT more to it than that.

In the 1960s and 70s the main grocery chains in Dallas were Tom Thumb, Safeway (national), Piggly Wiggly (national), Wyatt's (local), A&P (national). A&P went out in the late 60s. I believe Wyatt's was bought by Krogers. PIggly Wiggly probably went out in the late 60s or early 70s as well.

Minyards was a lower-end chain in the suburbs, like Winn-Dixie or Affiliated.

When Safeway left Dallas (maybe 1985?), THAT is when Minyards took over a bunch of empty Safeway stores and went upmarket - even more upmarket than Tom Thumb, to be honest. I"m not sure what happened to them, to have gone from one of the two main chains in the city to complete dissolution in maybe 10 years, but I'd suspect bad management.

Let's not forget Food Lion's in-and-out failure, nor the Skaggs/Skaggs Albertsons/Alpha Beta/Albertsons churn that lasted a few years.

I always thought Weingarten's was the chain in Houston that went "POOF!" over just a few years.

[tmtex]

Minyards was just DFW and Waxahachie or Waco. Family owned. Worked there in high school and College. I do remember the Food Lion fiasco. They were to come in and knock out all the others. They bought/built many stores and gone in a year or 2.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

So where does the idea that single family detached homeowners get additional government legal power to dictate what others can do with their property unavailable to no other type of property owner come from? Is there something wrong with enacting private deed restrictions instead of zoning laws?

Neither disallowing ADUs nor having minimum lot or home sizes in greenfield suburbs is justifiable unless there's a real life/safety issue (which generally there isn't). How much you paid for your home makes absolutely no difference in how much legal sayso you should get regarding surrounding land uses.

Houston and the state of Texas (which doesn't allow counties to zone) do it right. The California mentality of so many Texans is very disappointing.

Dallas isn’t a suburb.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

So where does the idea that single family detached homeowners get additional government legal power to dictate what others can do with their property unavailable to no other type of property owner come from? Is there something wrong with enacting private deed restrictions instead of zoning laws?

Neither disallowing ADUs nor having minimum lot or home sizes in greenfield suburbs is justifiable unless there's a real life/safety issue (which generally there isn't). How much you paid for your home makes absolutely no difference in how much legal sayso you should get regarding surrounding land uses.

Houston and the state of Texas (which doesn't allow counties to zone) do it right. The California mentality of so many Texans is very disappointing.

I find it amusing how the "density at all costs, to hell with the existing residents and their quality of life" crowd will pull out these pseudo-libertarian arguments against zoning when (and only when) the zoning supports single family detached houses. While they'd be perfectly happy for every other house in a neighborhood to have two apartments over the garage, with the concomitant increased load on utilities, parking issues, transient population issues, etc. - and they'd be perfectly happy for a developer to buy up a couple dozen small houses in a neighborhood and put in 250 apartments in a four story building right in the middle of the place - let a developer propose a manufacturing plant, or lead smelter, next door and you'll see them marching out front of City Hall with placards. Their worship of the free market only extends to situations where the free market supports their particular quasi-religious beliefs.

And the proof of the pudding is in the eating; overwhelemingly when people in the US have the opportunity and finances to select the kind of housing THEY want, they go for single family detached housing near a city center. Of course there simply isn't enough of that kind of housing, so they compromise. Etiher they live in apartments, row houses, or duplexes (or triple-deckers in old Northern cities) to be near the city center; or they move further out than they really want and accept the commute. But when they can, the choice of the American people is almost always the single family detached house. And amazingly enough they keep electing and re-electing city council members and other officials who appoint zoning boards who will maintain SFH areas WITHOUT garage apartments and apartment buildings in the middle of them.

If the majority of Americans actually preferred attached multi-family housing to detached SFH, and if SFH owners really wanted to have a bunch of apartments inserted into their neighborhoods, they'd be electing representatives who would appoint zoning boards that would change the zoning. But they don't.

So basically you have to assume either that the American people are idiots and don't know what they want (so the Central Planning Commissariat needs to tell them what they want and make sure they get it), or that they DO know what they want and keep voting for it, over and over and over and over and over again.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by SanJac

Says the guy that has a weekend home in Brenham! LOL

Yeah, so? In Houston, my single family neighborhood has a bunch of big apartment complexes adjacent. The backyards themselves aren't deep so even another single family home with a second story can see over the fence. Am I owed some sort of "protection" via city regulations? That's laughable and you know it.

Houston's lack of "protections" hasn't hurt the city. Fight me on that if you disagree.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

I find it amusing how the "density at all costs, to hell with the existing residents and their quality of life" crowd will pull out these pseudo-libertarian arguments against zoning when (and only when) the zoning supports single family detached houses. While they'd be perfectly happy for every other house in a neighborhood to have two apartments over the garage, with the concomitant increased load on utilities, parking issues, transient population issues, etc. - and they'd be perfectly happy for a developer to buy up a couple dozen small houses in a neighborhood and put in 250 apartments in a four story building right in the middle of the place - let a developer propose a manufacturing plant, or lead smelter, next door and you'll see them marching out front of City Hall with placards. Their worship of the free market only extends to situations where the free market supports their particular quasi-religious beliefs.

And the proof of the pudding is in the eating; overwhelemingly when people in the US have the opportunity and finances to select the kind of housing THEY want, they go for single family detached housing near a city center. Of course there simply isn't enough of that kind of housing, so they compromise. Etiher they live in apartments, row houses, or duplexes (or triple-deckers in old Northern cities) to be near the city center; or they move further out than they really want and accept the commute. But when they can, the choice of the American people is almost always the single family detached house. And amazingly enough they keep electing and re-electing city council members and other officials who appoint zoning boards who will maintain SFH areas WITHOUT garage apartments and apartment buildings in the middle of them.

If the majority of Americans actually preferred attached multi-family housing to detached SFH, and if SFH owners really wanted to have a bunch of apartments inserted into their neighborhoods, they'd be electing representatives who would appoint zoning boards that would change the zoning. But they don't.

So basically you have to assume either that the American people are idiots and don't know what they want (so the Central Planning Commissariat needs to tell them what they want and make sure they get it), or that they DO know what they want and keep voting for it, over and over and over and over and over again.

Was I "pushing" density? All I say is let the market decide what type of housing is needed. It could very well be single family homes.

The same argument applies to ridiculous stuff like the "McMansion ordinance" in Austin. Existing SF home owners thinking that they were owed "protection" from "oversized" homes in their neighborhood. How pathetically misguided is that?

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Dallas isn’t a suburb.

So? City regulations disallowing strip centers to become multifamily, prohibiting McMansions, suburbs with minimum lot sizes - they are all in the same category of "single family homeowners think they are owed special protections through municipal laws that other uses don't get." Those "protections" generally being other kinds of housing they don't approve of being near them or even in their community altogether.

None of it is justifiable. Period. Fortunately, the state's home building industry is fighting all of it too.

[Capitalprophets]

This sounds horrible for home valuations throughout DFW. Quite not sure if I can trust these 2 to be part of making some leading decisions on labeling neighborhoods in Dallas.