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...I don't know about the heating and cooling bills - definitely concerns. We had asked about that, and the reponse was that these homes are so energy efficient that it doesn't take much to cool them (separate A/C units for different sections of the home, etc). That they don't cost more than about 300 in summer. I of couse would much rather have concrrete data. Not sure I believe that.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any homebuilding trade, whatsoever. The following comments are my personal trials and tribulations as a prospective new-home purchaser.
The person (home salesman) that told you that does NOT have your best interest in mind. He/she is a salesman attempting to sell you a new house - period.
You stated the home is zoned with 2 HVAC systems. It’ll cost ~$300 month for a normal tract-built 2,000 ft² home with one HVAC unit chugging away. [I'm talking 2K, not 4K ft².] Ask anybody what their summer cooling bill is on a 2K ft² new, non-CUSTOM, builder-grade home. If they say significantly less than $300 per month, then they are lying or the HVAC system isn’t used 50% of the time.
The salesman is parroting that $300 monthly bill on orders from management above. If you very sparingly used the HVAC system (such as, thermostat set to 55℉ winter, 80℉ summer), you could possibly get by with $300 a month maximum utility bill. That would make it sort of difficult to enjoy preparing food on the granite countertops in your new kitchen or ogle the travertine tile without spontaneously bursting into flames or getting frostbite, depending on the season.
If the house is a two story, or has a lot of west facing windows and 12-foot plus ceilings, you can almost double that amount proffered by the salesman. IF you adjust the thermostat so you freeze in the winter and roast in the summer, you can significantly save on your utility bill. The upper floor of a two story house in the mid-summer will definitely roast you like a thanksgiving turkey.
The main reason for the high utility costs is in the HVAC system and the way it is grossly installed along with the inferior ductwork that is used. If you improperly install the best, most costly, highest AC SEER, and 95% efficient furnace made by Trane, Carrier, whatever, it will cost you more to run than a properly installed builder-grade unit (cheap bottom feeder). If the ductwork is poorly designed to function for the heat load and grossly inferior products (flexible ductwork) are used, it is a poor imitation of an HVAC system. You can rest assured that flexduct (flexible ductwork) is used on that 4K ft² house and 99% of all the other tract-built (NON-custom) homes built in Texas.
Flexduct is a cheap product and amazingly fast to install. Crappy installation by don’t-give-a-damn labor equals low performance, which in turns means high dollars to operate. The vast majority of flexduct is incorrectly installed with constricted airflow as a result. One room is hot with other rooms a different temp. The HVAC runs constantly and you are freezing or melting, depending on the season. Bad system design is the problem.
You do not have to buy the high dollar, top-of-the-line HVAC unit, but you better spend the cash for the better ductwork and proper duct installation. Well, I’m here to say that you don’t get quality ductwork on this type of house. You also will get the cheap builder-grade HVAC units with no option to upgrade to a better system. At contract signing, I seriously doubt that the proper ductwork along with intelligent installation knowhow could be ordered whenever you sit down with the builder to order your travertine tile, 8’ patio extension, in-wall Cat-6 network wiring, extra ceiling can lights, and powder room pedestal sink. As for as the home builder is concerned, their too busy offering hand-held samples of kitchen tile and carpet swatches to the home buyer.
Other utility saving upgrades such as greater attic insulation, proper attic ventilation, and proper ductwork insulation in the attic will allow significant utility savings that will pay you back every month. Higher R-value attic insulation is sometimes offered as an upgrade, but rarely the others.
In a nutshell, let me explain the difference between plain-old tract-built and true custom homes: The tract builders are selling the sizzle and telling you the steak (the house) is USDA Prime® porterhouse. In reality, it’s round steak smothered in gravy (granite countertops, wall sconces, soaring ceilings, bottom-of-the-barrel HVAC system, etc.). I say “don’t pee on my back and tell me it’s a warm spring rain.” Caveat Emptor, indeed.
In a typical tract-built (read NON-custom) 4K ft² house, it is literally thrown together with minimal building standards as well as minimal wall/ceiling insulation that allows the structure to pass local building codes. The builder will decry for eternity that their designs are above minimal building codes for the area, and they are correct. It’s the shoddy workmanship in the form of illegal Mexican labor together with minimal supervision to make sure the building process is done correctly. Sadly, it is not there. The crappiest, thinnest, cheapest products to get by are used in the construction process. Hey, if better (costlier) materials are used, the house price would be a whole lot higher. Then people would balk a buying the more expensive home. Heaven forbid, people would have to dice the carrots on Formica® countertops and walk around on Armstrong Solarium sheet-vinyl kitchen floors to get the price down to affordable. Oh, the horror! Don’t get me wrong. I like tile and granite, too. Just be forewarned what is behind that new home with the accountrements we all enjoy.
The vast majority of the new home builders are NOT custom home builders. The builder may advertise themselves as one, but with the limited ability to add a bonus room in the attic or kick-out a garage wall a few feet for extra parking space does not constitute the 'CUSTOM' moniker. You have to pay for custom with big bucks to get a true custom home. With the big dollar outlay you mostly get out of the realm of tract-built sloppiness in building products and workmanship.
The HVAC (heating, ventilation, air conditioning) system, all duct work to deliver heated/cooled air, and the overall HVAC system design is minimal at best to shove "conditioned" air into a new-build home.
Just like our Apollo spacecraft that got us to the moon and the Space Shuttle system to fly to the International Space Station, it was all built, in the most part, by the lowest bidder. A new home builder may call themselves a CUSTOM HOME builder, but don't bet your $,$$$ per month mortgage payment for the next 30 years that you are getting the best for what you DON'T see in a new home.
Tract-built homes are built by the lowest bidder in plumbing, HVAC, mechanical design, and workmanship. What you DON'T see bottled-up and hidden behind walls and in the attic is just that - hidden from view by fluff. Fluff such as granite countertops, bull-nose plastering on walls, cheap kitchen cabinets, archways, vaulted ceilings, and more wall niches and shelves than a castle belonging to King Henry 8th.
When you are roasting in July and August in your upstair bedroom, try to get the builder to admit the HVAC system is inadequate and you want a home that is comfortable in all rooms. After all, you could have paid $400K for this abode. I wish you well, for you will need it.
The builder will send out their HVAC technician to start the merry-go-round game of “I’ll adjust and balance the airflow in each room” to tinkering with the big boxes that make your electric and gas meters spin like crazy. It will be to no avail. The system is kludged up from the beginning. The low bid HVAC technician (usually in the form of a national home warranty HVAC company) will start his HVAC tweaking to hopefully get you to quite down. This home warranty company is not going to change out anything if they don’t have to. The cheapest and fastest way possible to get away from your system is the name of the game.
You can pay hundreds of dollars for a heat load (thermal) calculation (called a manual ‘J’), HVAC ductwork design (manual ‘D’), and an HVAC system selection (manual ‘S’) proving the builder improperly designed the HVAC system, and it will get you nowhere. You are stuck with a clunker. Of course, you can always pay for it yourself and have it done right the second time. Your ROI (return on investment) time period for the new HVAC system outlay is going to be immense. Just think, you haven’t made it to your first anniversary in your new home and you are frustrated and contemplating shelling out more money (several thousand or more) to get comfortable in your new home.
Sorry for being such a downer. I tend to speak truth to evil when it comes to large tract-home builders and their ilk. Keep your eyes open and your hands on your wallet.
Good luck.
Last edited by EarthFirst!; 01-30-2009 at 05:02 AM..
Reason: syntax
don't assume that having a hugh game room upstairs will lend itself to bedrooms easily--you have to have a window in each bedroom that allows for fire escape--sometimes that is difficult to do and incorporate walls/closets/hallway...I know--we tried to do the same thing in our older house and it was just not feasible...
frankly how long are you planning to live in this house?
if you are already considering resale (which is always good) maybe you should just rent for a couple of years--that does not sound like the normally accepted advice but this housing market is screwy right now
buy a house with some "issues" and you might have a very difficult time reselling in 2-3 years at a price that would not leave you upside-down in your mortgage...
Momof2 gave good advice--buying a big-box house is just not the cool thing anymore...and energy will get more expensive...
WOAH--edited my post after EarthFirst gave us benefit of his considerable knowledge--
way to go...chime in anytime--
There seem to be a lot of things missing for it being a 4K SF house. Walk-in closets? Pantry? Seems unbelievable to have all that space, and lose the "basics". As someone currently looking for a home, I can tell you, that is a big problem.
I wouldn't rate a master on the second floor as a total negative. I don't understand this one size fits all mentality about real estate. There are plenty of young families that don't want to be that far from children, especially if they are from being just old enough to be in a nursery thru preschool age. Imagine a scared/sick child trying to navigate a stairway to find mommy in the middle of the night -- many, many people want a master bedroom near other bedrooms.
Now when the kids are school aged and especially into teen years, a master on the main and kids upstairs is definitely preferable. But many in this market are not in just one stage of life.
The things the OP are mentioning are definitely nice, walk in pantry, walk in closets in all bedrooms, etc, but I would think those are things that would raise the price of the home significantly. If this is a $400k house, I would expect it to have this and more. We have a similar house in McKinney as mentioned, no walk in pantry, master on the second floor, about that many square feet, but it cost all of $185k in 2003 and hasn't appreciated that much since, could probably only sell for the low $200s in this economy.
this home sounds like an older home and I bet the room upstairs was added as a remodel feature by one of the past owners...
this house IMO was probably built by company like Drees or other volumn builder and has other homes w/same plan in the neighborhood---
most young families will opt for one story house vs one with all beds up if they have their choice unless they come from back east or california where it is much more common to have all beds up...
and the preference right now is for master and another bedroom with private bath down and other beds up...but lot size dictates ground floor choices--smaller lots/less space down...
I wouldn't rate a master on the second floor as a total negative. ... but it cost all of $185k in 2003 and hasn't appreciated that much since...
The feedback given is price range specific. Anything over the $175k range is VERY, EXTREMELY hard to sell with a master bedroom upstairs.
On average, a first time home owner with no or very young kids, are not buying a $400k house. The average buyer in the $400k price range has older kids and wants the separation. You're in the price range right at the range where it's going to be harder to sell your master upstairs than a house under $150k.
As for some of the other details, it sounds like it's a 3 bedroom home with a gameroom and bath upstairs. This is not a "bedroom" and will not sell on resale as a bedroom. It's considered a 1 1/2 story home, though the MLS will list it as a 2 story home. You have the master and 2 bedrooms downstairs. If those aren't "split" from each other, yes, you're going to have issues on the resale side... for this price range. In lower prices, there are no issues with bedrooms close by.
I so much appreciate all the feedback and the words of caution
The home was built in the 2000s - either 2000 or 2001. Not super old.
There's a full bath upstairs and a bedroom. I think bonus space that was turned into a bedroom. But there's also a game room.
The home has pretty nice finishings and is on a pretty big lot. It has a really open layout and real nice views.
I know I only stated the things we are concerned about and didn't talk much about the "good" things about it. But certainly all the cautionary advice here has me thinking and is so very helpful.
I believe the builder was David Weekly.
Here's a link to the floorplan (and it has the bonus upstairs)
That kitchen would be the deal breaker for me. Seems very impractical laid out that way and it's too open to the family room. Can you run the dishwasher or disposal if someone is watching TV? Seems like there might be a noise issue.
We moved into new house before christmas with kitchen much like that one with the dishwasher/sink on counter/bar separating kitchen from family room--the dishwasher is quiet--you can pull it out and sometimes add extra insulation to soundproof it more if it is noisy
the only thing that has really bothered us is the garbage disposal noise at certain times and the cooking smells--if I don't use the fan, they are more noticible in the family area than in our other house when had separated kitchen/family area...
it is the master bedroom that would be the deal breaker for me--awkward furniture arrangement
David Weekly is WELL KNOWN for doing "flex spaces" which is what the upstairs area was most likely referred to when it was first built. The area called "childrens retreat" was also available to be made into a 4th bedroom or study at the time. I've been in this floorplan and it is "spread out" enough between the childrens bedrooms and the master for most. The childrens retreat is nice. It is also a plus that the secondary bath has the split area between the vanity and the tub/toilet area. This way w/ two kids one can be getting showered and the other can at least brush teeth and do hair. Saves a LOT of arguing and hair pulling . The pantry is a decent size. The half bath helps. It is not a "bad floorplan". Just depends on the area, what comps are for that area, etc.
There was a house up in the Lucas area for sale this past year that had this floorplan BUT, it had the garage turned into a huge gameroom/media room and did not have the upstairs. They were wanting over $700K for it. It did have a detached 2 car garage w/ a bonus area and a HUGE Living area upstairs and about an acre of land. Still WAY TOO HIGH for that plan and NO "attached" garage. Please tell me it DOES have an "attached" garage. If not............... NO WAY!!! That will be a killer for resale more than ANY of the other "negatives".
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. The pantry is a decent size. The half bath helps. It is not a "bad floorplan". Just depends on the area, what comps are for that area, etc. 
