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The above post is great in theory, but all manufacturers that have tried no-haggle pricing have failed, either quietly or spectacularly.
Automakers do, however, need to end rebates. Just add about $2500 to each sticker price and leave it alone.
A complete revamp of most auto dealerships would also be beneficial. Most of the highly reviled practices are the result of old-school, screw everyone mentality, not the salespeople. Salespeople are inherently lazy. The path of least resistance is often the preferred one. Old-school sales managers that tell them "don't come back without xxxx, or pack your **** and leave" are to blame.
However, it's very true that no matter what price I come back with, people think they are being screwed. So why bother starting low if I am going to have to haggle anyway?
Not to mention that the profit I make is how I earn my living. I would much prefer a salary or a flat-per-car system, but those pay plans are rare. So I work with what I have.
Which plays right into the public perception that profit is a bad thing for a car dealer. That somehow, if they made any money, the client got a bad deal. This is particularly true on domestic brands, and some import brands. No one works for free, so there has to be some somewhere.
It's invariably the people that tell me they don't have time to haggle, that just want a good deal and to do it quickly, that take the longest and that haggle the most. Conversely, the people that just take a deal and move on are always the happiest. The people that pay the most are always the most satisfied customers.
I'll put up with your pomposity and know-it-all-about-the-car-industry attitude if you will come by a Pilot from me at sticker. Heck, just $500 over invoice! No underbody sealant either
Don’t call me pompous. Call me Captain Obvious. As in I obviously struck a nerve with you. Yes, I did fire a shot across your bow about the complaining of car salesmen and their whiney attitudes when having to deal with a client who won't roll-over and pay window sticker, and in the process, put easier money in your pocket.
Your own words put you in this category as a salesman who blames the buyer for your lack of earning more money on a car sale. Plus, you have to work a wee bit harder to get the sale.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, I say.
I have stated nothing in my prior post that was not truthful, honest and on the mind of millions of new (and used) automobile buyers. My detailing the past transgressions of auto salesmen and dealers is in no way dubious or fictitious.
This little bit of info will probably cause your head to explode, but here goes. My father-in-law worked over twenty years for the Chevrolet Motor Division, in two different state zone offices before retiring as a Chevrolet multi-state Zone Service Manager. Then, he purchased a Chevy, Buick, Olds, Pontiac and GMC truck dealership and ran it for about twenty years before retiring for good.
Yes, I have discussed this very subject with my F-I-L countless times over the past couple decades. My inside knowledge of the thought processes inside an auto dealership is certainly nothing to write a book about, but I am on firm footing in my delineation of the haggle/no haggle process and how it applies to the buyer. And the money grubbing ways to turn a profit at the arduous expense of the unsuspecting buyer.
The coloring and skewing of your outlook on the car buying public is readily witnessed. In the meantime, I suggest a course of enlightenment offered by either famous self-help gurus, Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar.
I'm surprised a car manufacturer has not pulled a Dell Computer where we can order direct off the internet and not go through a show room.
I understand all the pro & cons, state laws, etc but it seems like there would be a large cost savings if they shipped direct to the customer direct from the line.
Don’t call me pompous. Call me Captain Obvious. As in I obviously struck a nerve with you. Yes, I did fire a shot across your bow about the complaining of car salesmen and their whiney attitudes when having to deal with a client who won't roll-over and pay window sticker, and in the process, put easier money in your pocket.
Your own words put you in this category as a salesman who blames the buyer for your lack of earning more money on a car sale. Plus, you have to work a wee bit harder to get the sale.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, I say.
I have stated nothing in my prior post that was not truthful, honest and on the mind of millions of new (and used) automobile buyers. My detailing the past transgressions of auto salesmen and dealers is in no way dubious or fictitious.
This little bit of info will probably cause your head to explode, but here goes. My father-in-law worked over twenty years for the Chevrolet Motor Division, in two different state zone offices before retiring as a Chevrolet multi-state Zone Service Manager. Then, he purchased a Chevy, Buick, Olds, Pontiac and GMC truck dealership and ran it for about twenty years before retiring for good.
Yes, I have discussed this very subject with my F-I-L countless times over the past couple decades. My inside knowledge of the thought processes inside an auto dealership is certainly nothing to write a book about, but I am on firm footing in my delineation of the haggle/no haggle process and how it applies to the buyer. And the money grubbing ways to turn a profit at the arduous expense of the unsuspecting buyer.
The coloring and skewing of your outlook on the car buying public is readily witnessed. In the meantime, I suggest a course of enlightenment offered by either famous self-help gurus, Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar.
Love Zig Ziglar, have read him many times. Don't see much of his attitude in your judgmental post, of the industry or of me personally either.
Read my previous post dear sir. I work in internet sales where we give pricing based at invoice or a few hundred above invoice at most. If we have dealer incentives, the internet price reflects that and goes behind invoice the said amount.
I have sold only a couple of cars at sticker price because the market demanded it, either a brand new vehicle (like your aforementioned Pilot which one of my competitors attempted to sell above sticker) or one of the hybrids when we had $4 gas.
Like I mentioned earlier, I still have people pre judge the car business and when you give a bare bones deal like this, they still demand thousands less. They want full retail value for their trade and they demand 0% interest with their 590 beacon score.
Perhaps you are not like this and would consider $500 above invoice for a 2010 Pilot which is in very short demand a good deal and would not come to me and demand $2000 below invoice, retail value for your beat up trade in, 0% interest and 6 tanks of gas and free oil changes. Perhaps you wouldn't then still act like I ripped you off even when we met some if not all these demands, I took the time to follow you to your house so your wife wouldn't have to come in and sign paperwork and she could sign at home, then take you with her driver's license to the nearest Tom Thumb to make a copy for the paperwork, return you home and then get a lousy CSI survey which then puts me at risk of losing my unit bonus for the month. Perhaps you would then send me some referrals so I could sell more cars a month and get more than the $100 mini commission that a deal like yours would make and I could make more than $1000 a month which is where I would be with only ten cars sold for the month and no unit bonus because you had to blow off steam on the customer survey. Perhaps you are not like this at all.
This is exactly what happened to me this month with a person of national descent that is the topic of this thread, with the exception of him sending me any referrals. Perhaps you are not like this.
But from the tone of your post here, something in me doubts it.
Don’t call me pompous. Call me Captain Obvious. As in I obviously struck a nerve with you. Yes, I did fire a shot across your bow about the complaining of car salesmen and their whiney attitudes when having to deal with a client who won't roll-over and pay window sticker, and in the process, put easier money in your pocket.
Your own words put you in this category as a salesman who blames the buyer for your lack of earning more money on a car sale. Plus, you have to work a wee bit harder to get the sale.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, I say.
I have stated nothing in my prior post that was not truthful, honest and on the mind of millions of new (and used) automobile buyers. My detailing the past transgressions of auto salesmen and dealers is in no way dubious or fictitious.
This little bit of info will probably cause your head to explode, but here goes. My father-in-law worked over twenty years for the Chevrolet Motor Division, in two different state zone offices before retiring as a Chevrolet multi-state Zone Service Manager. Then, he purchased a Chevy, Buick, Olds, Pontiac and GMC truck dealership and ran it for about twenty years before retiring for good.
Yes, I have discussed this very subject with my F-I-L countless times over the past couple decades. My inside knowledge of the thought processes inside an auto dealership is certainly nothing to write a book about, but I am on firm footing in my delineation of the haggle/no haggle process and how it applies to the buyer. And the money grubbing ways to turn a profit at the arduous expense of the unsuspecting buyer.
The coloring and skewing of your outlook on the car buying public is readily witnessed. In the meantime, I suggest a course of enlightenment offered by either famous self-help gurus, Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar.
I'm glad your daddy-in-law owned a few dealerships, but until you have worked the sales floor, dealing with people and making a living selling, you don't know what you're talking about. Nothing personal, but being around it doesn't equal making your mortgage payments by doing it.
To lighten the mood a bit, let me share my favorite car salesman story. This comes from my dad, who worked as a salesman (and, later, new car and general manager) for a Honda dealership starting back at ground zero for the brand in the early 70s.
It doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but it's pretty funny.
Anyway, one of his co-workers was a top-class ladies' man. Christmas was his most successful time of year. Not for selling cars - everyone knows that time of year is terrible. No, for picking up women.
He'd go to the local bar and chat up his target for the evening. He'd steer the topic to childhood Christmas memories. He'd then go all sad and confess that he set up his tree in his apartment, but couldn't motivate himself to hang up the decorations, now that his parents were gone and he was all alone.
That would almost always elicit an offer of help with the Xmas lights and such, which would lead to the next thing, and the next thing, ...
The only "lame in his game" was that he'd have to spend his lunch hour the next day ripping down all the decorations and putting them back in their boxes.
I have been in commission sales for 40 years. I am both a Realtor and a Car Salesperson. I have never yet been able to break through the Indian Barter thing. Not with a good deal, not with good customer service, not with a great product, not with anything of value. Not even with ALL these elements. I have just come to the conclusion after all these years, and all this trying that they don't give a crap about me, my time, or the product. One thing I know for sure: they do not care AT ALL about understanding the American way of doing business. They live here, but unlike my grandparents who migrated here to what they felt was the best country on earth, they see anyone who waits on them or serves them as subservient and beneath concern. They will not ever completely assimilate to a classless society. I know, I know, we are not completely equal in reality, but compared to where they come from we are. As for people who want to believe that this is a stereo type and that they are just like other people when it comes to commerce - you have no experience. I came to this forum looking for answers. I know the TWELVE Indians who sucked the life out of me today because they wanted three thousand off a car that was already a mini deal for me (FOR NO REASON EXCEPT THEY WERE ASKING) and I am not exaggerating - TWELVE - over two cars - are not researching a way to do business with ME. Because what they bring to the table is fantasy and magical thinking, not research or actual knowledge about the product. They just think if they ask long enough, you will give in.
I have been in commission sales for 40 years. I am both a Realtor and a Car Salesperson. I have never yet been able to break through the Indian Barter thing. Not with a good deal, not with good customer service, not with a great product, not with anything of value. Not even with ALL these elements. I have just come to the conclusion after all these years, and all this trying that they don't give a crap about me, my time, or the product. One thing I know for sure: they do not care AT ALL about understanding the American way of doing business. They live here, but unlike my grandparents who migrated here to what they felt was the best country on earth, they see anyone who waits on them or serves them as subservient and beneath concern. They will not ever completely assimilate to a classless society. I know, I know, we are not completely equal in reality, but compared to where they come from we are. As for people who want to believe that this is a stereo type and that they are just like other people when it comes to commerce - you have no experience. I came to this forum looking for answers. I know the TWELVE Indians who sucked the life out of me today because they wanted three thousand off a car that was already a mini deal for me (FOR NO REASON EXCEPT THEY WERE ASKING) and I am not exaggerating - TWELVE - over two cars - are not researching a way to do business with ME. Because what they bring to the table is fantasy and magical thinking, not research or actual knowledge about the product. They just think if they ask long enough, you will give in.
Apparently, there is a conspiracy and all Indians in the metro do not want to buy a car from you. Do you realize they do buy cars after all? Most I know research car quality and prices thoroughly (Consumer Reports etc) before buying. Two of my Indian friends, after research, went and bought cars within a day of starting to look. Do you know that they have the highest household income of any ethnic group (including whites) in the US and are probably the most educated? They are unlikely to put up with a condescending attitude or a BS price. Your attitude probably shows, and they likely move on.
I have been in commission sales for 40 years. I am both a Realtor and a Car Salesperson. I have never yet been able to break through the Indian Barter thing. Not with a good deal, not with good customer service, not with a great product, not with anything of value. Not even with ALL these elements. I have just come to the conclusion after all these years, and all this trying that they don't give a crap about me, my time, or the product. One thing I know for sure: they do not care AT ALL about understanding the American way of doing business. They live here, but unlike my grandparents who migrated here to what they felt was the best country on earth, they see anyone who waits on them or serves them as subservient and beneath concern. They will not ever completely assimilate to a classless society. I know, I know, we are not completely equal in reality, but compared to where they come from we are. As for people who want to believe that this is a stereo type and that they are just like other people when it comes to commerce - you have no experience. I came to this forum looking for answers. I know the TWELVE Indians who sucked the life out of me today because they wanted three thousand off a car that was already a mini deal for me (FOR NO REASON EXCEPT THEY WERE ASKING) and I am not exaggerating - TWELVE - over two cars - are not researching a way to do business with ME. Because what they bring to the table is fantasy and magical thinking, not research or actual knowledge about the product. They just think if they ask long enough, you will give in.
I work in I.T. so I work with a lot of Indians. In general they only respect people with titles higher than theirs and it's like pulling teeth to get them to do anything or even answer a simple e-mail. They will even run off if you try to engage them in conversation. They also refuse to take ownership of anything they do; they will pass the buck and throw you under the bus as often as is advantageous to them. The quality of their work is also usually not that great. I have seen this from job to job, Indian to Indian. There are exceptions, but not many.
Sorry, but this is my experience. And I don't dislike Indians, I just don't like working with them. Chalk it up to "cultural differences." When I ask a question, I expect an answer. When I give an action item I expect it to be done. No excuses. I don't want to hear it.
people to reopen a thread that started in 07 and ended in 09 just to bash people of a particular ethnic group as an initial post is just racist to me
why even enter this arena
nothing good is going to come of it that will be enlightening or life-affirming...
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