What would you do about this nightmare dental experience? (implant, painful, molars)

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler

You need to take some very deep breathes and calm down. I couldn't read your entire post, but it seems to me that it would be worth the time and trouble for you to just go back and consult the dentist you saw for 25 years. You must have liked/trusted him for you to keep seeing him for that long.

Meanwhile, you need to learn some techniques for dealing with your anxiety. High blood pressure can lead to any number of poor health outcomes - some even worse than what you are dealing with your teeth. Go to your GP for a once over and ask if she can recommend someone who will help you deal with your anxiety.

Thanks for your great feedback and honesty. I no longer live where my dentist of 25 years is, although I've thought about moving back. It's about three hours away. I liked and trusted him and never had any problems until that #18 tooth broke in 2016. I was mad because he wouldn't give me the choice as to the type of crown for that molar. I wanted the proven for decades porcelain fused to metal (PFM), but he wanted to do one of the new type of crowns. I felt it should be my choice as to what goes in my mouth and body so I unfortunately went to that new scumbag dentist. Believe me, I now wish I would have done what my original dentist wanted because I would have saved myself a lot of stress, aggravation, pain and money. I also quickly learned that it was nearly impossible to get a dentist to do a PFM. They mostly do Zirconia now, which is better for them but not necessarily the patient!

It's interesting that you bring up anxiety, and I agree that I need to calm down. The first time that I went to my new PCP here, she recognized it immediately. I told her that I've been dealing with major anxiety and stress since I stupidly sold my house and moved. Obviously, I'm still not handling it well so thanks for bringing it to my attention, too.

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by Parnassia

Agree. There's more going on here than perceived, possibly imagined, trouble with your teeth OP. You seem to be hyper focused on this. Not good for anyone.

Thanks also for your honest reply. It's obvious that I really do need to chill out. I've just had all kinds of stress since I moved, and I'm exhausted. This dental issue is just one of many things that I'm dealing with.

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by aypn

If I were you I'd just get the #18 fixed since it's bothering you right now. The other problems may or may not be significant enough to sink money into, who knows, but why bother for the time being if it's not causing your decline in QOL?? I agree there are many shady dental practices out there (only thinking about $$$).

Thanks for your helpful suggestion. I'm still thinking about it, but I might just do the #18 crown and another regular cleaning, which will hopefully resolve the other issues that I've been having. I've been so disheartened by the dental profession that it's been hard for me to think clearly about it.

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by bobspez

I'd find another dentist that someone you knows recommends as a good dentist. I'd visit an oncologist and tell him your dentist said you might have cancer of the mouth and let him diagnose you, get the scans and let him tell you one way or the other. I'm not sure how old you are but at 75 I had problems in the last 5 years with three molars on the left side, two top and one bottom and just had them pulled. Two of the problems happened after my first deep cleaning in 7 years. I'll never have a deep cleaning again. I use the water pic and it is the best treatment for gums. When I was much younger I was told I had gum disease and my teeth were loose. I couldn't afford a periodontist and I bought the water pic instead and my gum disease and loose tooth went away. I have a bunch of crowns and had root canals for all of them. I didn't know you could get a crown without a root canal. As you get older a cleaning can't make your teeth that white.

Thank you so much for this great response. I've read bad things about those deep cleanings before, but you've really helped me since you confirmed you didn't have a good experience either. I think I'm just going to stick with the regular cleanings, and I'm going to definitely get a Waterpik now. I have several crowns and have never had a root canal, but those other teeth didn't break (just #18). I don't even know why I have those other crowns. I think I just had some cracking maybe, but I'm not sure because it's been so long ago. It makes me wonder why I have those crowns, and if they were even necessary.

[ecoast]

Originally Posted by LFJourney

They mostly do Zirconia now, which is better for them but not necessarily the patient!

I had 2 porcelain fused to metal bridges. One PFM bridge broke. Changed 2 bridges to Zirconia. No problem since then.

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by Variable

I agree about #18.

Regarding the possible cancer, health insurance might cover that since it's a medical issue that happens to to be in the mouth.

Thanks for this valuable input. I never realized that my health insurance might cover something like this so I appreciate you letting me know. I obviously hope Dentist #2 was way off base. What he said about oral cancer makes absolutely no sense given my lifestyle.

[LFJourney]

Originally Posted by ecoast

I had 2 porcelain fused to metal bridges. One PFM bridge broke. Changed 2 bridges to Zirconia. No problem since then.

Thanks for letting me know of your experience, which is very helpful. I don't know anything about bridges or how they compare to crowns when it comes to types of material. It's my understanding there are two types of Zirconia (at least for crowns). One is layered with a porcelain overlay and the other is monolithic (a solid block). Do you know what you have? Dentist #2 in my case said he'd do the monolithic on my #18 molar, but I read that the esthetics aren't as good as the layered and the opposing teeth need to be considered.

[LFJourney]

UPDATE: Here's a shorter version of my thread with the hope that I'll receive even more helpful feedback.

After going to the same dentist for 25 years, I went to someone different at the end of 2016 for a new crown on tooth #18 due to it breaking, but I knew immediately that I received substandard dental work and a poor-quality crown. I've since moved to SW Florida and have been to two dentists here.

Dentist #1 said I have good dental work without looking in my mouth, and he never examined the #18 crown. I had to relay everything to his assistant, and I felt the dentist ignored my concerns to protect another dentist. I was frustrated and decided I'd never go back after I had my cleaning.

His hygienist was extremely rough, sloppy, hit a nerve, and a piece of black something went under my tongue when she cleaned #18. There was still a lot of stain when she finished, but she said I can pay for a second cleaning. She barely flossed and didn't polish. For various reasons, I hadn't had my teeth cleaned since the end of 2016 versus my typical six months, but I was also delayed during the 2008 Great Recession and they were sparkly clean after I went to my hygienist.

Two days after going to Dentist #1's hygienist, and the first time that I'd eaten on that side, the #18 crown fell off. It was obvious she loosened it. Since I had a little sensitivity, the dentist said the safest thing is to put a temporary on until they return after the holidays. He didn't clean the decay under that crown and said he'd do it when I come back. He also said they'd call the day they return to the office to schedule the crown, but they didn't. I later received a $395 bill for an after-hours visit and temporary, but I'm having a difficult time justifying why I should pay for their negligence.

Dentist #2 said I needed to come back in two weeks for a 30-minute consultation to discuss his findings instead of telling me during the exam, which I found distrustful.

I can't seem to make a decision on what to do or who to believe because:

1. Both dentists said my gums measured mostly 2-3 mm, but I have a couple deeper 4-5 mm pockets. Dentist #1 says I have some gingivitis that a regular cleaning will clear up, and I don't have any bone loss. Dentist #2 said I have periodontal disease and mild bone loss, but they can prevent it from getting worse by deep cleaning those areas every three months for the rest of my life. I'm a fanatic with my home care and my gums don't bleed, but I started having some other mouth issues after taking Ibandronate for osteoporosis in 2021.

2. Dentist #1 didn't say anything about oral cancer. Dentist #2 said there's an abnormal finding on the x-ray by my lower front teeth that's suspicious. He made several contradictory comments like it could be oral cancer but it's not likely, and it may be a cyst but there's a lesion as clear as day. He suggested I go to an oral surgeon to have a CT scan and determine if we do treatment or keep an eye on it. I don't smoke or have any other risk factors that would cause this.

3. Dentist #1 said decay was under the #18 crown that fell off. Dentist #2 said he'd have to evaluate it after the temporary is off, but it seems he could tell from the x-ray.

4. Dentist #1 didn't say that I'd need a possible root canal or that I could lose the #18 tooth, but Dentist #2 said it's possible I'd need a root canal, crown lengthening or the tooth can't be saved.

5. Dentist #1 said that I have some decay coming on #31, and he'd do a new white filling to replace my old silver one that I've had for decades, but Dentist #2 didn't mention it.

6. Both dentists said I have some recession. Dentist #1 said he'd fix those with a resin composite (filling), and Dentist #2 recommended a $1,000 occlusal night guard in case I'm clenching, which I don't.

7. Both dentists said there's red irritation around #18 and were guessing at what's causing it, but Dentist #2 said in the exam that cement around the temporary was irritating my gums.

8. Dentist #1 said my joints are good, but Dentist #2 said there's a clicking noise (which I've never heard).

What do you think and what would you do in this situation? I wouldn't go back to Dentist #1 because it's clear they caused this bad crown to fall off, but it seems Dentist #2 is trying to pay for dental school given his expensive treatment plan. My gut told me not to return to the dentist in 2016, but I did because I didn't want to pay for another dental exam or delay the new crown, and that decision was a huge mistake. Meanwhile, this is costing me a fortune and the #18 crown and other issues are still not resolved.

Thank you in advance for any words of wisdom and advice.

[Parnassia]

Let's hope that the process of editing down your OP provided some emotional benefit/clarification. Sometimes allowing a complicated issue to settle out a bit before attacking it again helps to re-focus on what's most important.

[SethGrayson]

I would say Dentist 1 is shady as hell. Number 2 seems to be a little more honest in terms of diagnostics, but still looking to make a buck.


You probably should find another dentist for another opinion regarding the abnormality, and you might have to go through many before finding one that is an honest one.

Dentistry...is basically the auto mechanics of teeth. Most of them are their to make money off of your misery and poor diet.


After you get your fix, you must change your diet. If you eat grains, eliminate them completely if you can. Eliminate fruit juices, sodas, etc. Anything that is sweet with the exception of some solid fruit or sweet potato, end consumption. Starches for the most part, eliminate.

Since you already have osteoporosis, your food consumption and habits must be adjusted to help maintain the bones. A mixture of vitamins and minerals are needed. Obtaining vitamins D and K2 are needed. A diverse diet with calcium, magnesium, manganese, boron etc also helps. A simple combination is "Oily fish" like wild sardines or wild salmon and nutritious cheeses like Kerrygold or Old Croc cheddar with K2. You might want to google Steven Lin and Ford Brewer.

Xylitol and Kefir might have antibacterial properties for the bad bacteria.

If you have period, you will need a deep cleaning to remove the plaque under the gums.

Quite frankly, the biggest F U you can do to a dentist trying to make a buck is tell them to just extract the tooth. They make less that way, although then they might try to sell you implants.

You can do your own teeth inspection. If your gums aren't a consistent pink and you see your teeth receding, that's a sign you have perio. I've checked it myself as a 33 year-old male with it. My diet changes were done precisely because I didn't want to deal with any further trouble.