New lanes, I-25, Castle Rock to Monument (Denver, Longmont: sales, lease)

[DougStark]

I just read about this I-25 expansion in the Post (I'm sure you've known about it for a long time.) My question is, Why do you Colorado folks approve these freeway improvements yet allow them to be tollways?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "new lane" going each way on this I-25 segment will be a toll, unless you have 3 or more people in the car.

Is that the only way to get projects approved in and around Denver these days? Where is the fuel tax money going? Geez.

[LHS79]

Originally Posted by DougStark

I just read about this I-25 expansion in the Post (I'm sure you've known about it for a long time.) My question is, Why do you Colorado folks approve these freeway improvements yet allow them to be tollways?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "new lane" going each way on this I-25 segment will be a toll, unless you have 3 or more people in the car.

Is that the only way to get projects approved in and around Denver these days? Where is the fuel tax money going? Geez.

Yeah geez we should be rolling in revenue just from all of the people getting Colorado plates when they move here but alas- the DOT says our revenues are 1/2 of what they were just 10 years ago!

Wonder why that is-

Anyway- the toll lanes were added AFTER the voters in El Paso County approved tax money to be used for the expansion- and toll lanes were never mentioned until the DOT got the $$.

North of Longmont to FC will also be a toll lane when they expand that stretch also.

This is the future of all road construction now it seems. I agree and feel that the users of the roads should pay for them. However road users should NOT be paying for RTD, bike paths, trains etc.. that seem to be getting a lot of money from road users.

Politicians are too spineless to even ask for a gas tax increase, I would vote for that in a heartbeat. EV users would then need to be charged some sort of user fee etc... since they do not use gas.

And now it will cost MORE and construction will take LONGER than originally planned (NEVER expected that!): https://gazette.com/news/i--gap-cons...d3bab5cd4.html

[bluescreen73]

We've covered this subject ad nauseam. The purchasing power of the gas tax has eroded significantly. The gas tax hasn't been raised in over 25 years. At the same time fuel efficiency and construction costs have both increased.

This is not just a "Colorado thing." Other states have been building roads using public-private partnerships for well over a decade, and in some places roads have been leased off to private concessionaires for 35-99 year terms. The federal government has even gotten to the point where they incentivize the behavior over the traditional pay-as-you-go model.

Since we have a bunch of namby-pamby legislators who've been conditioned like dogs to cower at any kind of tax increase we either do P3s or borrow-and-repay through bond sales (which ends up with the same end result - tolls).

[davebarnes]

A major cause of this are certain constitutional constraints:
TABOR, Gallagher, 23.
And, "a bunch of namby-pamby legislators" who too cowardly to try to fix it.

[blindside]

I am a proponent of toll lanes with surge pricing. They work on I-25/36 and the Eastbound I70 Idaho Springs to US6. I hope they extend the expresstoll lanes from Monument all the way to Speer Blvd downtown.

[DougStark]

There's no reason toll roads need to be the answer. For example, the Phoenix area is finishing up the final portion of our massive freeway system, funded by ballot initiative.

Colorado allows ballot measures? So the general public voted down sales tax increases to fund freeway expansion in the Denver area?


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...one/707104002/

[alloo66]

Originally Posted by DougStark

There's no reason toll roads need to be the answer. For example, the Phoenix area is finishing up the final portion of our massive freeway system, funded by ballot initiative.

Colorado allows ballot measures? So the general public voted down sales tax increases to fund freeway expansion in the Denver area?


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...one/707104002/

We had a ballot initiative supported by the Colorado Chamber of Commerce in last year's election. The measure failed. I guess we like sitting in traffic.

[blindside]

All ballot measures proposing state wide tax increases last year failed by wide margin. This included bonds for transportation projects, and a movement to a graduate income tax system for education (CO is one of eight states that have a flat state income tax).

Voters in Colorado are tax adverse.

To say that increasing capacity reduces drive times is mythology. It's a short win that over a time becomes an overall loss as the population grows and again clogs the roadway. Southern CA and Houston are prime examples of this. 6 lanes in each direction, all gridlock. I highly doubt adding more lanes will alleviate the problem.

[illinoisphotographer]

I'd prefer them turning the major roads into general tollways, with reasonable tolls. How about $1-2 each way going through Monument? How about $2-3 each way at Idaho Springs?

This would raise a lot more money than the handful of people spending $8 for the Lexus Lanes.

[DougStark]

^^^^You'd know a lot about tollroads, right ILphotographer? Metro Chicago is riddled with stinking toll roads. Not my first choice, haha.