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This is going to be long – please bear with me! In a quandary …. We relocated through my job to the US from the UK in February this year. Initially the choice offered to me was TX, Denver or CA. I visited all three and said my preference was Denver, TX, CA in that order. However, the powers that be went into a huddle and decided that at least initially it suited their business purposes to have me go to Fort Worth, TX. Now for a variety of reasons talk is ramping up of relocating me again to Denver (yaaaay ) probably early next year when the lease on my house here in Fort Worth is up.
So I have been researching this forum and various rental websites including padmapper, zillow, trulia etc for a nice area to live in. Whilst the question of area has been covered lots of times on this forum and I think I really need to spend some time physically visiting the areas I think might suit, my dilemma is more to do with types of housing. The household just consists of me and my husband now (plus 2 well behaved, trained, adult cats with impeccable references ) and currently we have a 2300sqft two story single family home in a suburb 14 miles out of Downtown where I work, (commute times average 40-50 mins to do these 14 miles, 12 of which are freeway!!) with views over a lake in one direction and fields in another. The house itself is bigger than we really need but coming from dainty properties in the UK to Texas, it was a given that we would end up with something huge just so we had bragging rights with colleagues and friends back in the UK
We are fully prepared and happy to downsize and feel that with the price difference in Denver compared to Texas, we want to choose location/amenities (public transport, walkability to food stores, bars, restaurants etc) over property size to a certain extent. We’d still like a place that offers 2 bedrooms and an office/loft area etc but I have seen a lot of adverts for townhomes and condos in the Denver itself and cities like Broomfield, Arvada, Westminster, Littleton etc. I have never lived in a townhome or condo (apart from my university days of house sharing a row home with 3 other students, and those memories are somewhat fuzzy now lol). I have also never experienced living in these “resort type” communities except for those 2 week vacation scenarios. My first house of my own after leaving university was what is termed a duplex here in the States but after 3 years in that back in the 80’s, I have always lived in a single family home since.
Can people give me their views on the pros and cons of living in townhomes (with patio/yard) vs condos/apartments (not high rise but say end/corner units that have at least a large balcony/patio) vs duplexes etc? At this point not a huge debate on specific location, or even price point, just a discussion on the liveability (is that a word?) of different types of housing please.
This is going to be long – please bear with me! In a quandary …. We relocated through my job to the US from the UK in February this year. Initially the choice offered to me was TX, Denver or CA. I visited all three and said my preference was Denver, TX, CA in that order. However, the powers that be went into a huddle and decided that at least initially it suited their business purposes to have me go to Fort Worth, TX. Now for a variety of reasons talk is ramping up of relocating me again to Denver (yaaaay ) probably early next year when the lease on my house here in Fort Worth is up.
So I have been researching this forum and various rental websites including padmapper, zillow, trulia etc for a nice area to live in. Whilst the question of area has been covered lots of times on this forum and I think I really need to spend some time physically visiting the areas I think might suit, my dilemma is more to do with types of housing. The household just consists of me and my husband now (plus 2 well behaved, trained, adult cats with impeccable references ) and currently we have a 2300sqft two story single family home in a suburb 14 miles out of Downtown where I work, (commute times average 40-50 mins to do these 14 miles, 12 of which are freeway!!) with views over a lake in one direction and fields in another. The house itself is bigger than we really need but coming from dainty properties in the UK to Texas, it was a given that we would end up with something huge just so we had bragging rights with colleagues and friends back in the UK
We are fully prepared and happy to downsize and feel that with the price difference in Denver compared to Texas, we want to choose location/amenities (public transport, walkability to food stores, bars, restaurants etc) over property size to a certain extent. We’d still like a place that offers 2 bedrooms and an office/loft area etc but I have seen a lot of adverts for townhomes and condos in the Denver itself and cities like Broomfield, Arvada, Westminster, Littleton etc. I have never lived in a townhome or condo (apart from my university days of house sharing a row home with 3 other students, and those memories are somewhat fuzzy now lol). I have also never experienced living in these “resort type” communities except for those 2 week vacation scenarios. My first house of my own after leaving university was what is termed a duplex here in the States but after 3 years in that back in the 80’s, I have always lived in a single family home since.
Can people give me their views on the pros and cons of living in townhomes (with patio/yard) vs condos/apartments (not high rise but say end/corner units that have at least a large balcony/patio) vs duplexes etc? At this point not a huge debate on specific location, or even price point, just a discussion on the liveability (is that a word?) of different types of housing please.
Interestingly- I do not live in Denver (but I stumbled upon your thread because my family is researching moving to Denver within a year.) But I can comment on your general question of living in "resort type community/apartment" because I live in one now. For many many years I just lived in homes with yards because of my very active dog (who has now passed.) Now we have a 3 year old son. My hubby and I, because the market was so wonky, moved into an apartment in a beautiful "resort type community" called Playa Vista and we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. (for now). This community consists mainly of apartments. These type of communities generally have amazing outside areas (just out our front door in fact) to make up for the lack of yard (and you don't have to pay to up keep it!) We love our all inclusive community- we can walk to parks, library, coffee shop, bank, yoga studio, etc. AND the best thing is you don't even have to pay to change a light bulb! Whenever anything is broken- which rarely happens (light bulb, plumbing, disposal, etc.) we just pick up the phone and call our building leasing office and they send maintenance by the end of day to take care of it. LOVE it. We also have a building pool (again, no upkeep). My best friend who was able to buy 3 bedroom home on an acre in Albany NY is always complaining about all the upkeep and $$ she has to put in to her home.
Do we want a home? Yes, definitely, which is part of the reason we are moving to Denver- and we are very excited to be able to afford to buy a really nice home there. (LA has "fixer uppers" for 1 Million- ridiculous)
But loved our time in our apartment community
And yes, we opted for a corner 1st floor unit. (less "apartment-y" because we didn't have to take an elevator).
Our community does have townhomes as well but they don't have a building office that can change their lightbulbs or unclogg their toilet for free
Those are the pros I see for now! Cons would no garage to drive up into (kind of pain when you have a bunch of stuff to carry from the grocery store, etc.) but we got used to it.
Downsiding does not always mean to go into a condominium, one floor unit or a townhome situation, either a ranch or two stories; and as some people choose, for more privacy, a separate patio home with all outside maintenance included. It could also mean buying a much smaller home in a walkable neighborhood.
There are many such homes in the Denver area. The best walkable neihborhoods are in older areas as they have been established with shopping and especially public transit, for it takes years to bring good public transit into newer areas. The Denver area has excellent bus service in many locations; you just have to choose wisely. In addition, the Denver metro area is known for its extensive parks, trails, open space and recreational facilities in Denver and the suburbs.
These older homes tend to be in developments that do not have home owner association dues. I would suggest a small ranch home for retirement because stairs become a problem as you age and they are easier to maintain. These homes served previous generations to raise larger families and were adequate and they can easily fulfill the need for seniors. Downsiding also means reducing your needs, wants and desires; which can also mean that we have the maturity to do away with the need to brag with an ostentious bigger home, when they serve no other purpose.
Many of these homes have been well maintained and updated over the years. If upkeep is a problem, you can easily hire people and it can be less expensive than many of these overblown and expensive fees. You do not need a development with a pool, tennis courts, and a private park when all these amenities are offered all over the area by the recreational districts and are already included in the taxes. Most of the outstanding and best recreational facilities, in this area, are tax supported, not private "pay to live".
I have suggested often a way to find a good neighborhood that is walkable to stores and has good public transit. Take the public transit maps and overlay them with the main essential stores in the area, such as King Sooopers or Safeway Grocery, Walmart or Target or other main stores. These stores will also attract smaller stores and restaurants, as retail clusters together for sales advantage. Look for the parks, nearby and you will find many. Make sure the buses are on main routes which tend to run often and late. A rail station is also an advantage. Look at the homes in this neigborhood for this neighborhood will become you mini-walkable city which is created by you.
This created "city" does not have to be the "in neighborhood" or the riches. It could just be an intersection in a city or suburbs of main streets that have shopping and good public transit. I can think of many such neighborhoods in this city and these provide many more amenities and services than planned community. Many planned communities are nice but they often leave out essential and reasonable priced shopping and have too many overpriced fluff store that are interesting, for a time, but do not serve your daily essential needs.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-01-2011 at 01:08 PM..
Thank you Kaizmama and Livecontent for your comments.
We are in our mid 40's and enjoy a social life, bars, restaurants, entertaining at home etc and we also enjoy the great outdoors. We are aware of the fact that there seems to be a selection of smaller single family homes in various areas which might fit our lifestyle (and this would probably be the route I would choose on gut feeling) but in this thread I am really looking for other people's views on alternatives to the SFH but that still offer a reasonable size (minimum of 1300sf and prefer larger) and that offer at very least a good size patio/balcony/deck if not a yard as such. Part of the attraction are the things that Kaizmama mentions (lack of yard maintenance, watering expenses, snow removal etc) but also the amenities offered on-site at many of the resort type complexes, eg pool, BBQ, clubhouse etc which would be a good way to meet people in a new environment.
However having been used to having our own space and only having experienced resorts as part of a vacation, I don't really know whether living in such a place long term is a great idea. Does it become tiresome? Do you feel like you still have your own space or does the fact that outside your walls you can still hear and see everyone else going about their lives become intrusive on your own? Is this type of community better suited to the 20-30 year olds? Is it a good way to meet people or do people living in these types of community still tend to keep to themselves?
The marketing of such places make them sound wonderful (but they wouldn't be very good marketeers if they didn't!) so now I want the other side of the coin, people who have actually lived in these places to give the lowdown, good and bad, and whether in their opinion, this kind of lifestyle might suit young at heart (but in their 40's in reality) transplants or if these are really intended for those just starting out in life, young professionals or singles etc?
P.S. Livecontent, your posts on Arvada in particular have caught my attention several times for the quality of their content and based on those, I will include Arvada in my areas to explore!
1. Single family. One house on a plot of land. Four outside walls. House and lot sizes vary a lot. Space between houses varies a lot. Sometimes with an HOA and sometimes in a gated community.
2. Duplex. One building, two units side by side. (Also known as patio homes, single family houses or town homes as "duplex" is a "dirty word" in Denver.) Typically, each unit owns its land and a "party wall" agreement defines the rules for the common wall. Again wide variety in size, but most new ones will be 2000 sqft + basement and larger due to construction economics. Fairly rare in Denver.
3. Small multiplex (though it is never called that). Typically called town homes. 3-6 units in a row. Two story with basement. Land ownership is sometimes shared (i.e., legally a condominium, but never called that). HOA agreement.
4. Apartment style. Many units in a single building. Usually called a condo (and never called an "apartment" as apartment means rental. each unit is typically on a single floor. Shared ownership of land and building. HOA.
My experiences.
1. 1984-87. 1400 sqft patio home. Really liked it (and our common wall neighbors). Moved when we had a child and because we plenty of money and income. Outer SE edge of City of Denver. Had to drive everywhere.
2. 1987-2011. 2500 + partially finished basement. Built in 1926. Bonnie Brae neighborhood. Smallish 5000 sqft lot. It was our pop-top and we loved it as it was our custom dream house. Some walking and short drives. We moved because we wanted to downsize house and mortgage.
3. 2011 (4 months). 1900 sqft duplex + 90% finished basement on 3000 sqft lot. So, it is not actually smaller. In Berkeley on the NW edge of Denver. Much closer to shops (Tennyson Street and West Highland). Our neighbors are great and so far, we love it. We walk a lot more.
Last edited by davebarnes; 11-01-2011 at 03:41 PM..
Does the square footage quoted exclude the garage usually?
Also when a property has a basement which is described as "unfinished" - would this be the sort of condition a garage would be in i.e. bare concrete floors, unconcealed pipes etc?
What is a non-conforming bedroom?
These things are not terms I am familiar with in the UK, thanks!
1. Does the square footage quoted exclude the garage usually?
2. Also when a property has a basement which is described as "unfinished" - would this be the sort of condition a garage would be in i.e. bare concrete floors, unconcealed pipes etc?
3. What is a non-conforming bedroom?
1. Yes. Someone living here would ask the question as: does the sqft INclude the garage? No, it does not.
2. Yes.
3. Not legal. Constructed without a building permit. Many reasons: not a large enough fire exit (window); no closet; etc.
You have to real careful with the sqft number. In the olden days (5+ years ago), whenever you saw a number it meant: living area above ground. Now, estate agents use the term "finished sqft" to indicate that old number + the finished basement sqft. The is America, where more is better. The careful agents will always add the qualifier of finished. The sloppy ones won't. So, you need to what the county records say the sqft is.
Thank you Dave, appreciated. Only been in the US since February this year so still learning the colloquialisms and how to speak "English" correctly
Yes, I have seen various adverts for property that state "finished sf". If a non-conforming bedroom is illegal, why do houses have them? I am guessing it means that the room/basement is there for extra living accommodation but that it should not be used to sleep in and if you choose to do so that is your lookout if the place burns down and you can't get out?!
I lived in a high rises for years. 6th, 10th, and 8th floors. (Capitol Hill.) I loved it. Loved the views, urban life, security and lifestyle. When I decided to buy a place eight years ago I looked to the same style - condos in the buildings populating cap hill, Cheesman Park, (built in 60s-70s) and newer ones populating Uptown.
I found the HOA fees insane. Over $400 which goes for pools, elavators, random maint. and needed costs. The newer lofts I found too small, same high HOA, and corny design like bedroom and bathroom walls stopping a foot from the ceiling. (Why would houseguests want to hear me in the bedroom?)
I didn't wan't a house because didn't care to maintain a yard, but was fortunate to find a townhome in Congress Park. It's a middle unit in a group of 12 townhouses. The HOA is reasonable, we all know each other and get along. I have a back patio which I can grow veggies and spices, and have done a lot of improvements bit by bit over the years.
Due to the layout townhomes DO tend to offer each person more private space, (as opposed to a large open apartment) I have two bedrooms upstairs and a finished basement. I've had friends, family, roomates stay in the basement and having a full floor between you is much more private than an open floorplan. Negatives is that the design is more dated, and there are lot of stairs.
While I miss the view, I LOVE being able to carry in groceries without dealing with mulptiple doors, key cards and elevators. I can keep my bike right inside my front door. I know all my neighbors and we keep on eye on each other (still being in the city) so I don't worry about not having a gate, security, etc.
Main point - With a townhouse I truly feel like I have a large house, despite not having a yard or garage. I've never felt that in an apartment, even a large one.
Am starting to lean towards having a look at some townhouses when the time comes to move to Denver area. Had never really considered them before but having seen your replies/thoughts and the ones I have seen advertised on various sites, it would be interesting to see physically. In Texas where we live currently, we have to drive to everything but it would be nice not to have to do so all the time. Also Denver area seems to have a lot more to see and do in a smaller overall area that time (and money) not spent maintaining a large yard could be put to better use and get us a bit more active, especially as the weather in Denver is more conducive to being outside than the extreme heat we suffered in Texas this summer.
I don't think an apartment/hi-rise sounds like a good fit for us but certainly a townhouse/patio home seems like it could suit so long as we don't end up with neighbors who want to throw parties every weekend!
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) probably early next year when the lease on my house here in Fort Worth is up. 
) and currently we have a 2300sqft two story single family home in a suburb 14 miles out of Downtown where I work, (commute times average 40-50 mins to do these 14 miles, 12 of which are freeway!!) with views over a lake in one direction and fields in another. The house itself is bigger than we really need but coming from dainty properties in the UK to Texas, it was a given that we would end up with something huge just so we had bragging rights with colleagues and friends back in the UK 
Four types of housing
