Gang War in Northeast Denver (living, stores, statistics)

[notoriouskelly]

People get the neighborhoods they deserve; cops are janitors- it isn't their job to ensure your neighbors aren't full of dirtbags.

I lived in Capitol Hill area and experienced more property crime in a few months than decades across the country. I then waged a brief battle against drug dealers (who attract other crime) and heard how the area was the same 50 years ago and knew I wasn't going to change it.
One big reason is it's easy to avoid cops in cars and those guys rarely get out of them. Foot patrols could catch/prevent a lot of things but the demographics of the area might resist those.

So I moved to the suburbs where people value property and experienced zero crime for years.

If people won't rat out the scum and make life miserable for them, nothing will change. it's easier to leave the cities to bums and criminals and just live in a safe suburb.

[jacobwilliam77]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Few years? Try decades. Check out the Summer of Violence in 1993.

North Side Mafia - YouTube

[davidv]

Originally Posted by aedubber

based from your reply it seems like your a liberal arent you?

Actually, I am a centrist and pragmatist. I believe in treating people like human beings.

It is the de-humanization of people that has helped cause the mess we are in. We are largely products of our environments.

Treat people like animals inside of a prison, then they will act like animals outside of the prison.

Help these (mostly) men by instilling values, teaching skills, and rehab inside of the prisons, and by giving them chances to be productive outside of prison, and we will have fewer people headed back to prison.

[aedubber]

Originally Posted by davidv

Actually, I am a centrist and pragmatist. I believe in treating people like human beings.

It is the de-humanization of people that has helped cause the mess we are in. We are largely products of our environments.

Treat people like animals inside of a prison, then they will act like animals outside of the prison.

Help these (mostly) men by instilling values, teaching skills, and rehab inside of the prisons, and by giving them chances to be productive outside of prison, and we will have fewer people headed back to prison.

I agree, and we should treat people like humans.

Let me ask you this tho , what happens when we treat people like humans but they still act out like animals and cause pain ,suffering, and death to society ?

Sorry, but our jail system is not what you think it might be. I give the respect thats given to me. These people have chances in life , just like everyone does. If you want to commit crimes then be ready for the so called consequences that come with it . You seem to think criminals were not given chances or choices before they turned into a criminal. Weird

[Cyborgt800]

Treat people like animals inside of a prison, then they will act like animals outside of the prison.

LOL typical liberal pablum! Think about it logically for a minute will you? If they are in PRISON doesn't that mean they have ALREADY been convicted of acting like an animal? LOL

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by aedubber

I agree, and we should treat people like humans.

Let me ask you this tho , what happens when we treat people like humans but they still act out like animals and cause pain ,suffering, and death to society ?

Sorry, but our jail system is not what you think it might be. I give the respect thats given to me. These people have chances in life , just like everyone does. If you want to commit crimes then be ready for the so called consequences that come with it . You seem to think criminals were not given chances or choices before they turned into a criminal. Weird

You seem to be more concerned with punishment than actually solving problems. It appears that you think more prison time/harsher sentences is a crime deterrent when the data show that this is not the case.

http://www.slate.com/articles/busine..._criminal.html

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...ous-punishment


A few stats for you:

* On Dec. 31, 2012, there were 196,574 sentenced prisoners under federal jurisdiction. Of these, 99,426 were serving time for drug offenses.

* Of the 3,942,776 adults on probation in the US at the end of 2012, 25% (approximately 985,694 people) had as their most serious offense a drug charge.

* Of the 851,158 people on parole at the end of 2012, 33% (approximately 280,882 people) had a drug charge as their most serious offense.

* African Americans are incarcerated at nearly 6 times the rate of whites.

* About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug.

* 5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites.

A prison culture within a society starts to exist when people are incarcerated at a disproportionately high rate. You blame the individual or the group because its the easiest thing to do. It absolves you of looking at greater societal problems.

The point I hope you get here is that you have a very Fox News view of this problem which is to say that you are letting your emotions get in the way of reason and data.

Originally Posted by Cyborgt800

LOL typical liberal pablum! Think about it logically for a minute will you? If they are in PRISON doesn't that mean they have ALREADY been convicted of acting like an animal? LOL

Please see above. Not as simple as you are making it out to be.

A person who commits a victim less crime is sentenced to prison and then emerges with a criminal record and can't find employment. Basically ****ed for life. Person has spent time among criminals in prison and now can't get a job but needs money. More crime ensues. This time not victim less.

Think about it logically.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by davidv

Actually, I am a centrist and pragmatist. I believe in treating people like human beings.

It is the de-humanization of people that has helped cause the mess we are in. We are largely products of our environments.

Treat people like animals inside of a prison, then they will act like animals outside of the prison.

Help these (mostly) men by instilling values, teaching skills, and rehab inside of the prisons, and by giving them chances to be productive outside of prison, and we will have fewer people headed back to prison.

I have lived in bad areas of this country. I have helped sent people to prisons. I have allowed prisoners on work release to work at my place. I have hired people out of prisons.

I think what you express is part of the bigger problem of those who think the same by not addressing the issues directly and fairly. Compassion should be shown more to those who have been wronged and who will be wronged by the neglect of society to implement effective and stronger controls over those who commit crimes.

Some criminals are animals before they enter prison and will also remain animals if you define animals as uncontrollable and without any sense of morality. There is nothing society can do that will change these people, regardless of what caused them to act and behave badly.

Our justice system does goes out of its way to try and help and change but prisons do exist for punishment. Yet, some times the only option is to execute some of these miscreants quickly or lock them away for life.

I have seen both types, those that have been reformed and some who can never be reformed. We in society cannot just put all our safety at risk and continue to give chance after chance to those who commit crime.

I firmly believe in stronger punishments; quicker punishments and continuous punishment and the quicker implementation of the death penalty. I believe in public punishment and humiliation to allows others to see what will happen. I believe in a public death penalty of a type that is more apparent that the person suffers, as in hanging. I believe flogging, in public, is a reasonable and not unusual punishment. This will allow others to see what will happen and will act firmly as a deterrence against crime.

I would equally forcefully apply public punishment to white collar criminals that are much more severe than we see today and even apply death by hanging to the financial crimes of wall street, the bankers and the executives of General Motors.

I believe that sterilization and castrations as a good effective punishment against some repeat offenders for specific crimes so they cannot have children or continue to have children, so children will not be subject to an abusive and deleterious upbringing. In addition to stop any possibility of defective genes being passed on to progeny. If hard core criminals have children, I would support removing children from the care and responsibility and control of the parents, so the children will have a way to escape from bad familial cultural values and have a better future. This will help remove some environmental causes of future crime.

I believe the death penalty, by hanging, should be applied quickly to many more crimes such crimes against children and continuous drunk driving. It is best to remove these people and it will surely prevent them from committing more heinous acts.

Livecontent

[Cyborgt800]

^^^^ So SELLING drugs isn't a victimless crime?

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Cyborgt800

^^^^ So SELLING drugs isn't a victimless crime?

Think about this logically.....

Should selling someone something that they are asking you for be a crime? Are you calling the buyer a "victim" because they went in search of a dealer? I work in sales. I actively have to solicit business. Drug dealers don't sell drugs. They take orders. Users will always find a way to use.

Are liquor store and casino owners criminals simply for providing people something that they want?

What is the goal of incarcerating people for drugs? Is it working?

I was discussing drug policy recently with an FBI agent I know. We need to ask ourselves as a society why we lock people up for drugs. Is the goal to stop drug use? If so there are so much data available to prove that this doesn't work that anyone who suggests this as an idea should be laughed out of the room.

[nele]

Originally Posted by davidv

Read this story (Why Scandanavian Prisons are Superior), and then tell me how our "luxurious" prisons breed recidivism.

Really interesting article. I hope all of the folks commenting here will take the time to read it. Sadly there's no hope that the U.S. will ever allow punishment to be defined as the curtailment of liberty, alone.

I'm against privatization of our prisons, but: what we have now is so bad (in terms of recidivism and inhumane treatment, not to mention cost), I wonder if privately-run prisons could be worse. Could corporations that want to run prisons be incentivized by having their profits tied to low rates of return? Or is that too much mixing of capitalism with (gasp) socialism?