Unicorporated Adams County (Sherrelwood, Twin Lakes, Welby) (Denver, Thornton: buying, best schools)

[Hschlick84]

Given how the population of these subdivisions are enough to band together and form a new suburban area, do you think they will ever get together and create a new city? Would there be any benefits and what sort of changes are needed for it to go forward? Could they alternatively get absorbed by Thornton or Federal Heights?

[davebarnes]

No. Yes. Yes.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Given how the population of these subdivisions are enough to band together and form a new suburban area, do you think they will ever get together and create a new city? Would there be any benefits and what sort of changes are needed for it to go forward? Could they alternatively get absorbed by Thornton or Federal Heights?

These concerns and some answers are best served if you address them to Adams County. There has been recently completed a Welby Subarea plan by the County Commissioners which will give you a comprehensive overview of the this area.

Adams County, CO - Official Website - Welby Subarea Plan

I doubt that these areas have the economic and population base to form a city. The question of whether Thornton or Federal Heights will want to absorb these areas have to be answered with what benefit would accrue to these entities on bringing these areas into the city.

Unincorporated areas come into into cities most often when developers and/or businesses and/or established developments are seeking some services, such as water. The cities then looks at what taxes and benefits can be gained by the acquisition of the area in the present and/or with future development--basically, it has to be a benefit to all stakeholders: to the residents, businesses located within and the acquiring municipality.

Livecontent

[Mike from back east]

My normal instinct is to rant against creating new political entities (cities or counties) that have yet another set of elected officials, fire and police departments, school districts, courts, zoning laws and permit rules, tax laws and collectors, etc, etc. In the Denver metro area the amount of duplication and redundancy is off the charts.

In El Paso county it's just nuts here as we have about 20, yes 20, school districts; each with a fully redundant school board and 20 sets of legal and administrative staffs and on and on and on the duplication goes.

Back in Fairfax County VA we had one school board for a county of 1M+ people and we had among the best schools in the nation; people paid a fat housing premium to live in that county and send their kids to those schools. Same for Montgomery County MD where our regular poster 2BinDenver grew up.

I prefer most of the Denver metro area merge into one city with one government, one PD, one FD, and one set of schools. I know it's not going to happen, people like thinking they have control over their own 'hood but as long as they are willing to pay the tab for all that duplication then they can go for it.

Statewide we have 64 counties whereas 15-20 counties would do just fine. Nationwide we have 3107 counties. These counties were created before modern highways and telecommunications shrunk the ability to manage large areas. We could cut the number of counties by at least half and not miss a thing - except all those redundant staffs in all those county governments.

Thanks for bearing with me, I feel better now....

[Hschlick84]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

My normal instinct is to rant against creating new political entities (cities or counties) that have yet another set of elected officials, fire and police departments, school districts, courts, zoning laws and permit rules, tax laws and collectors, etc, etc. In the Denver metro area the amount of duplication and redundancy is off the charts.

In El Paso county it's just nuts here as we have about 20, yes 20, school districts; each with a fully redundant school board and 20 sets of legal and administrative staffs and on and on and on the duplication goes.

Back in Fairfax County VA we had one school board for a county of 1M+ people and we had among the best schools in the nation; people paid a fat housing premium to live in that county and send their kids to those schools. Same for Montgomery County MD where our regular poster 2BinDenver grew up.

I prefer most of the Denver metro area merge into one city with one government, one PD, one FD, and one set of schools. I know it's not going to happen, people like thinking they have control over their own 'hood but as long as they are willing to pay the tab for all that duplication then they can go for it.

Statewide we have 64 counties whereas 15-20 counties would do just fine. Nationwide we have 3107 counties. These counties were created before modern highways and telecommunications shrunk the ability to manage large areas. We could cut the number of counties by at least half and not miss a thing - except all those redundant staffs in all those county governments.

Thanks for bearing with me, I feel better now....

Isn't Maricopa county in Phoenix one big county that has all the suburbs together? What if Adams, Jeffco, Arapahoe, Douglas, Denver and Broomfield county all merged as 'Front Range county'? Then there could be one PD, FD, and county buildings all consolidated.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Isn't Maricopa county in Phoenix one big county that has all the suburbs together? What if Adams, Jeffco, Arapahoe, Douglas, Denver and Broomfield county all merged as 'Front Range county'? Then there could be one PD, FD, and county buildings all consolidated.

Yes. From Wiki: "Maricopa County is in the south-central part of the U.S. state of AZ. As of the 2010 census, its population was 3,817,117 making it the most populous county in the state, and the 4th-most populous in the US. It is more populous than 23 states. The county seat is Phoenix, the state capital and 6th-most populous city in the country."

Probably a good idea to consolidate a bunch of the Denver area entities into one, with one tax rate for all. Maricopa/Phoenix is about 4M people, is larger than 23 states, does it with ONE government and if they can do it so can we - if we want to.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

My normal instinct is to rant against creating new political entities (cities or counties) ...

You know what will happen, the wealthy of Douglas County will rant and rave about being collected together with "those people", the poor, the people of color, and the Latinos, of other counties. Their wealthy county with the cost of buying into their county acts as de facto segregation.

They like it that way since they do not have to walk the walk, but just talk of the talk with the sham liberal lectures for diversity.

I heard it many times in aside conversation, in numerous meetings with the elite, when they though this man was not listening!

Segregation Now, Segregation Tomorrow, Segregation Forever.--George Wallace

I suggest you look into history of the Poundstone Amendment to the State Constitution and the real reason it was implemented. It prevented Denver from acquiring suburban land and whiter school districts which would have diluted segregation of colored schools in the overall Denver School District through busing. However, busing is now illegal and it would have created that greater county, that you envision, but race and segregation is always the issue when you combine different groups of ethnicity. Actually many of these contiguous areas would have been better served by being in Denver--areas of unicorporated South Jeffco, Arapahoe and Adams Counties.

Livecontent

[Mike from back east]

Agree. De facto segregation will always be with us. As more and more people rise out of poverty / ignorance and can afford nicer digs they will move to those nicer areas, but even then we will be segregated by income / wealth levels.

Even if it were all one big city, income / education levels should largely maintain the current financially segregated structure of poor, fair, good, better and best areas. As far as Douglas County, it seems too far from the city core to be in the singular city I envision, i.e., Castle Rock is rather remote from Denver and Douglas County extends all the way down to El Paso County at Monument Hill.

My idea is for all those close-in jurisdictions to be one city, mostly areas inside of Hwy 470, since that highway makes a much better boundary line than ancient wandering waterways. I envision some redrawing of county lines in order to meet the "inside of 470" concept. Circumferential highways (aka beltways) are a form of "moat" around major cities, truncating a lot of cross streets and bifurcating the land and population into what are logically separate zones. IMO this modernization in the last 50 years is sufficient justification to reopen the centuries old county lines and alignments.

[livecontent]

Actually, I do agree with your original statement. I would prefer not only one school system but also one county police force. I would do away with Sheriff departments because there will be no unincorporated areas and I think a sheriff is just a duplication of what already will exist. I really cannot understand in counties like Denver and Broomfield, being City Counties, why there is a sheriff department. I would consolidated all departments to the county level, even today with separate municipalities, as much as possible.

Yes, I do agree it is time to modernize the counties in this state.

Livecontent

[Hschlick84]

I've read about the Poundstone amendment before, maybe people could vote on it to repeal it?