Denver without Poundstone amendment (Aurora, Lakewood: neighborhoods, tax, living in)

[Hschlick84]

What would Denver be like if the Poundstone amendment didn't pass in 1974? Would Denver have sprawled big like Houston and Dallas? Could the Denver metro area be one big county like Houston is in Harris county instead of being divided into 7 counties?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poundstone_Amendment

[davebarnes]

Similar to today.
No.
No.

[Texas Ag 93]

And maybe it's not a bad thing Denver is not like Houston or the Metroplex in this regard. I know many people who lived in those municipalities annexed over the past 20 years or so by Houston were not happy about the deal. They lost the efficiencies and small town feel of many of their previously good city services, and had to utilize the City of Houston. Moreover, when I lived in Denver, I appreciate the fact that the City and County was a combined entity, rather than having to deal with two separate branches of Govt.

Of course, when the large cities do this, they point out that annexation is justified by the fact that they are losing out on revenue because virtually everyone living in those municipalities works, shops and does much of their business in the larger city. So, I can see both points of view.

[woob]

If only Denver had annexed the land and not developed it until there was real demand. We could have maintained our dense neighborhoods and streetcar network instead of turning ourselves into a wasteland of parking lots.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

What would Denver be like if the Poundstone amendment didn't pass in 1974? Would Denver have sprawled big like Houston and Dallas? Could the Denver metro area be one big county like Houston is in Harris county instead of being divided into 7 counties?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poundstone_Amendment

Absolutely, that was the city’s plan. Ever wonder why the City and County of Denver owns so many parks in Jefferson County? It wasn’t because they wanted to be nice and provide the residents of Jefferson County with a great park system, at the expense of Denver tax payers. It was because most or all of Jefferson County was in their annexation plans, and they wanted to have park land set aside for future Denver residents in that area.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by woob

If only Denver had annexed the land and not developed it until there was real demand. We could have maintained our dense neighborhoods and streetcar network instead of turning ourselves into a wasteland of parking lots.

That is exactly what they were doing. They annexed the land for the Denver Tech Center, years before it was developed. Then they annexed land southwest into Jefferson County to Kipling and Belleview. That area has only recently been developed in the last couple of decades. They annexed Green Valley Ranch, east of Aurora. Denver was well on it’s way to land-locking most of the suburbs, when the Poundstone Amendment put a stop to it.

As for the streetcar system, the Poundstone Amendment had nothing to do with that. The streetcars were already gone for 25 years when the Poundstone Amendment was passed, and the Denver Tramway had been out of business for a couple of years at that time. If the City and County of Denver had annexed the suburbs early on, it would have had one positive effect on transportation. The Denver Tramway would have been better able to provide bus service to the suburbs. Which was difficult for them to do, because of the cost of franchise fees. But even with annexation of the suburbs, that would have meant better bus service, not streetcars. Because the Denver Tramway and the City of Denver were already long since committed to bus only service.

On the subject of streetcars, the most unfortunate thing in Denver transportation history was that the Denver Tramway did not at least keep the streetcars on the interurban lines to Golden and Arvada. If they had preserved those rail lines, RTD would have been able to easily start light rail service to those areas in the 1970s, instead of just now.

[Hschlick84]

If not for Poundstone Amendment, Denver would continue on with annexing JeffCo, then started up north with unincorporated Adams county and parts of Thornton.

[Mike from back east]

The questions or issues for me are:

1. Are we better served by one government or ten redundant governments where WE pay for ten sets of overhead costs, ten sets of elected types, ten sets of laws to manage, ten sets of building and zoning codes, ten sets of fire, police, courts, jails, road departments, ten sets of everything? If corporations huge and small can run their entire national networks with ONE headquarters, why can't a major metro area? Riddle me that.

2. Is "local control" really better or just more wishful thinking by us white people?

I have to go out for a medical visit, I'll probably posit a few more things later to make us go 'hmmmm'

[Kar54]

Yes, I recall the Poundstone debate fairly well.

Denver had it's eyes on Jefferson County, particularly during busing/integration. That is why the City of Lakewood incorporated in 1969. To block Denver's western front. Same with the northern burbs. Aurora mostly had them on the east.

Then Poundstone sealed their fate. Look at what had to be done just to annex a portion of Adams for DIA.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

The questions or issues for me are:

1. Are we better served by one government or ten redundant governments where WE pay for ten sets of overhead costs, ten sets of elected types, ten sets of laws to manage, ten sets of building and zoning codes, ten sets of fire, police, courts, jails, road departments, ten sets of everything? If corporations huge and small can run their entire national networks with ONE headquarters, why can't a major metro area? Riddle me that.

I expect over time that most city services in the Denver Metro Area will be merged anyway. RTD already provides transportation for the entire metro area. Most of the fire protection districts are being merged. I believe it was just last year that Englewood contracted with Denver for fire protection. In the process they were able to close one fire station. Because in many cases you can have two fire stations just a few blocks apart, serving two different cities. It doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know why police and other services won’t be the next to be merged. Eventually city governments might just become irrelevant, with most services coming from metro districts.