Metro Denver Among Top 10 Cities with Highest Average Salaries (Fort Collins: 2015, rent)

[SkyDog77]

"The average salary in metro Denver is $59,866, which lands it in the No. 9 spot among the nation's 53 largest metro areas. The national average is $53,000."

Also of note:

"Despite a high ranking for salaries, metro Denver is in the second lowest tier when it comes to percentage growth of salaries in the past year, with salaries up 2.7 percent.

Chris Engle, president and chief analyst of Headlight Data, says the state's growing employment base may help push wages up.

"Denver ranked in the top 10 for employment growth from 2014-2015, growing 3.8 percent," Engle said. "Rising wages are also a sign that employers in Denver are able to pay higher wages due to their success.""

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...e-highest.html

[SQL]

I wonder if that is per capita or household. Until recently, per capita in the US was only around $30k. This looks more like household income figures.

Also, averages are skewed by anomalies. I'd rather see what median per capita incomes are.

The article just sort of glosses over the "study". It seems more like a fluff piece to promote the region than anything else.

According to this source, median per capita was around $35k in 2014.
www.deptofnumbers.com/income/colorado/denver/

[SkyDog77]

You can click through to the study. I'm unclear on their definition of "salary". It's possible that "income" includes those who are unemployed and "salary" does not, but I'm not sure.


Headlight Data | Fastest Growing Large Metro Salaries of 2015 Found In San Jose, Nashville, Riverside; Highest Salaries In San Jose, San Francisco, New York

[SQL]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

You can click through to the study. I'm unclear on their definition of "salary". It's possible that "income" includes those who are unemployed and "salary" does not, but I'm not sure.


Headlight Data | Fastest Growing Large Metro Salaries of 2015 Found In San Jose, Nashville, Riverside; Highest Salaries In San Jose, San Francisco, New York

If the $59k represents household incomes, I figured that to be sort of low. In other data sets I've studied recently, Denver's median household income was around $66k. However, $59k as an average per capita income seems pretty high considering that in most of the US, it's around $30-$35k per person.

I also don't like relying on averages, because as I said before, they can be skewed by anomalies and outliers. If you have 100 people and 98 of them make $25k/yr, and 2 people make $10m per year, the average is going to be skewed towards those millionaires even though there are only two of them in the data set. If those people drop out of the data set, suddenly your average drops very significantly. That's why I'd rather rely on medians in a data set.

[mic111]

There is often another data point which is median income for families which is generally higher than median household income. Household takes in alot of people like retires or young singles just starting out. Median income for families tends to represent the working age population.

Here is an example of how the statistics typically play out:
"For households, the impact is most seen between 1 and 2-person households. Median income for a one-person household is $27,237 while typical income for a two-person household is $58,121. Median income rises as household size increases, peaking at 4-person households with a median income of $75,343. For 5 or more person households, median income ranges from $64,747 to $69.691. In families, we see a similar pattern except that, by definition, there are no 1-person families. Median income for a two-person family is $56,646 and rises, peaking at $76,049 for 4-person families. From that point, median income declines to between $64,478 and $70,403 for larger families."

Here are the number for Denver:
"The ACS 1-year data shows the median family income for Denver was $81,329 in 2014. Compared to the median Colorado family income, Denver median family income is $5,924 higher. As with the median household income data, 2015 family income data for Denver will be released in September of 2016.
Show dollars as: Nominal Real
Real Median Family Income for Denver Colorado


2014 1 Year Change 3 Year Change
US $65,910 +1.28% +1.88%
Colorado $75,405 +2.98% +3.65%
Denver $81,329 +2.49% +4.81% "

So median family income for Denver is $81,329 which is significantly above the US family median income of $65,910.

Edit: Just noticed there was some confusion on salary vs income. My guess is that the reason incomes numbers are showing higher is because they take into account earning from investments, SS etc. whereas salary is based on reporting from companies with respect to jobs.

[caverunner17]

Originally Posted by SQL

If the $59k represents household incomes, I figured that to be sort of low. In other data sets I've studied recently, Denver's median household income was around $66k. However, $59k as an average per capita income seems pretty high considering that in most of the US, it's around $30-$35k per person.

I also don't like relying on averages, because as I said before, they can be skewed by anomalies and outliers. If you have 100 people and 98 of them make $25k/yr, and 2 people make $10m per year, the average is going to be skewed towards those millionaires even though there are only two of them in the data set. If those people drop out of the data set, suddenly your average drops very significantly. That's why I'd rather rely on medians in a data set.

What would be more useful is if they broke it out by highest degree obtained and salary, along with the percentage of people with a degree.

If a city has 80% of their population just having a HS diploma and the mean wage is $30k, it tells a completely different story than if 70% of the population has a BA/BS and above and the mean wage is $60k.

The first tells me that there are a lot of people working minimum wage jobs and few professional opportunities.

The second tells me that the area is more educated and has a lot more professional jobs.

[Sunderpig2]

I'd rather hear about the bottom line; what's left over when you include salaries and cost of living. It's the end result that ultimately matters. In other words, how much "free" money you have left over (if any!), to use for savings, investment, or whatever your American heart desires.

Keep the source in mind too. Of course the Denver Business Journal is going to make Denver look good. It's their main function! LOL How about a thoroughly independent source? Can we handle that?

[lovecrowds]

Yeah, but it takes 6.6 years of average wages to afford a house in Denver. The median home price is $394,000.

The average wage is $6,000 above the national average but the median home price is $154,000 above the national average.

I just looked at the report and the disconnect is amazing.

The interesting thing about the data is that the averages always look much better then the median wages in cities but of the huge income disparity.

The best wage to home price ratio's are in Texas and the industrial midwest.

[caverunner17]

Originally Posted by Sunderpig2

I'd rather hear about the bottom line; what's left over when you include salaries and cost of living. It's the end result that ultimately matters. In other words, how much "free" money you have left over (if any!), to use for savings, investment, or whatever your American heart desires.

Keep the source in mind too. Of course the Denver Business Journal is going to make Denver look good. It's their main function! LOL How about a thoroughly independent source? Can we handle that?

I've never liked the cost of living approach. The only thing that *really* matters is average rent / mortgage. Even there, people buy more house than they need, so it's easy for someone to become house-poor pretty quickly.

It also doesn't take in to account a lot of people like to have roommates, whether that's a SO or a friend. Not only does it cost less, but you have someone to come home to and to hang out with.

[bluescreen73]

Here's some levity for the folks who say jobs in Denver are low-paying. I did a phone screen for a Senior-level .Net position in the Fort Collins/Loveland area yesterday. The call was over the moment the recruiter disclosed that their salary range was 35-40% less than what I'm currently making (and I'm just a tick above Denver's median for my profession depending on where you look).

There's a positive to this development - I think I've finally convinced my wife that living up there is a terrible decision for someone in the tech sector.