Should I buy a house in Denver? (fit in, rent)

[maciesmom]

So if you currently have 2 decent jobs and own a house, why again are you complaining?

What is it you believe you deserve?

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

So if you currently own have a house, why again are you complaining?

Well, first off, I've mentioned a number of times that I'm personally speaking in terms of SFHs. I own a townhome at the moment. I don't think we'll ever be able to afford a SFH on the Front Range.

Secondly, I'm also empathizing with other people my age who struggle, some who are far more successful than I am, and still can't afford a home. One that comes to mind is a friend in his late 30s. Has a BSBA, MBA, and MS in Accounting. He's been saving for years and can barely afford to keep pace with the down payment he needs to buy his first place because costs keep rising so much and so often. I suppose he hasn't worked hard enough to afford even a basic home in CO. Should I tell him that?

[maciesmom]

We both have over a decade of work experience, college degrees, earn ~$140k, and can barely afford a basic SFH...we're literally in the top-10th percentile of earners in the US. When do we get to that point in our lives where we're not expecting too much for as much as we have invested in ourselves and our futures?

I'll ask again...

What do you think you deserve?

You clearly feel you are not getting what you want or deserve in Denver. Start looking elsewhere or maybe start looking for jobs that pay more. I don't know. That's what you guys have to figure out. Is it worth it? It may not be. That's when you make a change somewhere.

I have no idea about your friend. Like everyone else, he needs to weigh the pros and cons of where he works, what he does, where he lives, what it costs and what he wants, then make a decision and act on it. Maybe he's happy.

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

I'll ask again...

What do you think you deserve?

You clearly feel you are not getting what you want or deserve in Denver. Start looking elsewhere.

I have no idea about your friend. Like everyone else, he needs to weigh the pros and cons of where he lives, what it costs and what he wants, then make a decision and act on it. Maybe he's happy.

I don't think it's a matter of what I think I deserve. However, I do think there's a reasonable expectation that if you work hard, put in the time and effort, that a basic standard of living should be affordable. Need I remind you that you're not talking to a 22 year old young man who just got out of college and thinks he's owed a McMansion near the urban core or other trendy neighborhood. I'm a 33 year old man with years of experience, education, a relatively large income, and yet, ownership of even a basic SFH is nearly elusive for us, and damn near impossible if I were single. And this isn't just about me; this is about many others I know who are in similar situations as me. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm one of the few in my friends group that actually has bought a home or two.

I think the bottom line is that so much more has been expected of us (college costs, higher insurance premiums, etc) and yet, even some of the most basic life amenities are still out of reach. My parents and many people their age that I know personally didn't have to work nearly as hard in life to earn/achieve some of these most basic things. What do I need, a PhD in Astro Physics and a posh gig at one of the top engineering firms in the world to afford a basic 2BR SFH with a yard? How much harder do you think I need to work to afford such a basic lifestyle?

And you light heartedly jest about places like CA or other places that people were forced to move from in years past, but young people today are fighting an uphill battle there as well.

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot

I don't think it's a matter of what I think I deserve. However, I do think there's a reasonable expectation that if you work hard, put in the time and effort, that a basic standard of living should be affordable. Need I remind you that you're not talking to a 22 year old young man who just got out of college and thinks he's owed a McMansion near the urban core or other trendy neighborhood. I'm a 33 year old man with years of experience, education, a relatively large income, and yet, ownership of even a basic SFH is nearly elusive for us, and damn near impossible if I were single. And this isn't just about me; this is about many others I know who are in similar situations as me. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm one of the few in my friends group that actually has bought a home or two.

I think the bottom line is that so much more has been expected of us (college costs, higher insurance premiums, etc) and yet, even some of the most basic life amenities are still out of reach. My parents and many people their age that I know personally didn't have to work nearly as hard in life to earn/achieve some of these most basic things.

Uh huh.

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Uh huh.

It's true. The data is out there to support that argument. College costs (almost a requirement in today's work force) and health insurance premiums have risen drastically in the past 20-30 years; much, much higher than the rate of inflation. I personally work in underwriting and actuarial analysis in insurance, so I'm pretty well-versed in this area as part of my job.

The difference here is that I don't fake empathy and pretend to care about the little guy when I really only just care about myself. Again, I point back to how we got to where we are with the nationalist agenda we have today. Believe it or not, there are a lot of Millennials and Gen Zers out there wearing 'MAGA' hats. Maybe they're feeling quite abandoned by the people that were supposed to have their backs.

The truth stings sometimes.

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot

It's true. The data is out there to support that argument. College costs (almost a requirement in today's work force) and health insurance premiums have risen drastically in the past 20-30 years; much, much higher than the rate of inflation. I personally work in underwriting and actuarial analysis in insurance, so I'm pretty well-versed in this area as part of my job.

The difference here is that I don't fake empathy and pretend to care about the little guy when I really only just care about myself. Again, I point back to how we got to where we are with the nationalist agenda we have today. Believe it or not, there are a lot of Millennials and Gen Zers out there wearing 'MAGA' hats. Maybe they're feeling quite abandoned by the people that were supposed to have their backs.

The truth stings sometimes.

You think that means more is expected of you than previous generations and that they didn't have to work as hard as you? You were really going there?

I don't even know how to respond to that.

I'm out.

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

I don't even know how to respond to that.

I bet you don't, because it takes real life experience to really empathize and understand. My parents did not attend college. My dad is a local truck driver and has worked for the same company for 40 years. I'm not arguing that he has not had tough days at his physically-intensive job. I'm saying that he has not needed to jump through nearly the same amount of hoops as me or anyone else I know in a similar situation. And yet, he and my mom own a SFH and have owned since their late 20s. They basically live near where they grew up their entire lives near a major city.

I have a college degree from a top university, paid out of pocket for most of my degree (and still paying), over a decade of work experience, moved across the country multiple times for work, etc. We are top income earners in the US. We still cannot afford even a most basic SFH with a yard throughout most of the Front Range.

Explain to me how you do not understand that these two scenarios are different.

[Timmyy]

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

It did, and I apologize for the back and forth, even though it's a discussion. It's just silly in today's day and age that some people can act so obtuse about a situation when there is mounds and mounds of data out there supporting this. Anyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand for the past decade understands that young generations are up against a lot of obstacles these days. It's not to belittle previous generations and their past struggles. Nobody is discounting them or arguing they did not exist at all. But jesus, this is so evident, I don't understand how to make it any more clearer.

To be a Millennial or younger in today's day and age, expect the following:

College degree - more expensive than any time in history, but required for most jobs in the past 10-15 years

Insurance premiums - more expensive than any time in history, but required by law in most cases

Health costs - more expensive than any time in history, and required for living

Housing costs (near urban centers with jobs) - more expensive than any time in history

Soon to come: Automation


It's baffling to me how people can pretend they care about the little guy struggling, make such a hoopla about it on forums and in life, but then straight up ignore the people in their own back yards who bring forth some of the issues present in their lives. No wonder nationalism has taken hold around the world. People in their own countries are struggling with basic living needs, and their governments and fellow citizens are ignoring them while saying, "Hey, let's go focus on that other country over there and help their people!" Good on you, and that's commendable, but hey, we have some problems here, too, that need to be addressed.

I'll leave now. No offense meant on my end; I'm just trying to not make light of a real issue that some of us are facing here and people just brush off like 'no big deal'.